HELP! Never had salt before!

[aak420]

All of these posts have much information and alot of it good. But, we should be clear about "ich" since this is something that will enevitably affect all who keep saltwater fish. First, ich is almost impossible to not have present in your aquarium. It is a parasite that is found in every tropical enviornment of saltwater habitat on the planet. It is imported to the aquarium trade via fish, live rock, and any other host it can hitch a ride on. With respect to Yellow Tangs as a cycle fish, I have had tremendous success. Tangs in do run a higher rate of "getting" ich. But, ich attacks hosts that have become weakened due to stress. The cycling of a new tank is not a stressful event for a hardy fish, this is regardless of species. Most tangs that get ich, get it because other fish in the tank bully them and cause them to stress out. If you buy a tang that is in good condition and add it to your tank in the begining, you will accomplish multiple goals. 1. You will cycle your tank, 2. You will have a fish that is desireable long term, 3. You aren't staring at a piece of rotting shrimp and waiting, 4. You are allowing the tang to "own" the enviornement prior to other fish being introduced, this further gives the tang less opportunity for stress down the road. Again, this is not something I have done once in my own tank and consider it a success. This is something I have done for 15 years with all of my own tanks and with all of my customers tanks.

 

[aak420]

All of this is true and point is taken. Again as stated earlier, the majority of fish keeping is experience and theoretical, not science. In my personal experiences which are what I would consider extensive I have found yellow tangas to be well suited and had few problems. But, I am not the only fishkeeper nor the only person that has experiences to back up my claims. Bottomline as a previous manager/employee in the industry I have had many more damsels be aggressive, returned, killed, etc. than tangs. It basically got to the point where many customers that I knew were going to be loyal, I wouldn't even charge for damsels, knowing that in 4-6 weeks they would just be returned. IMO the powder blue tang is probably the most likely of any fish to contract ich. But again, there are probably plenty on this board that think the powder blue is the greatest fish around. I wasn't trying to state that all fish are hardy and thus should be used for cycling, but there are other options beyond damsels. Has anyone ever used black mollies? You want cheap and outside of the box, give those a try or ask me how. They happen to be some of the coolest fish in my reef tank and provide abudant food source for other fish and animals, since they are a livebearer.

 

[aileena]

What amazing discussions we have on some of these threads. Its like my collegues at work bring in a cow that is black and white and we will sit and argue that it is really only a white cow or its a black cow or even better yet its not black or white its opaque! when all we wanted to know from the beginning is whether it was a good cow or not!
No offense friends just throwing out some interesting humor to lighten up the playing field!

 

[midimouse~]

Why do you put a piece of shrimp in the tank? What does that do?
Thanks,
Lam

 

[lurch694u]

The piece of raw shrimp will start to decay which in turn will cause a huge amonia spike in the tank. THen the whole process of tank cycling begins...
IMO crushed coral is a nitrate haven... And a pain in the A$$ to vacumn. Argonite sand on the other hand you don't have to vacumn. Critters like hermits, sandstars, counch, will stir it up for you...
Live rock 1lb per gallon is good biological filtration. Also so is a deep sand bed.
I run would run a protien skimmer.
I wouldn't run a mechanical filter.
UV Sterilizer, well that is a taboo question. Some swear by it to kill parasites in the water. Some say it is a waste of money...
For a testkit I would get a RedSea Marine lab. That has everything in it to test your water... Easy to use also...

 

[fshhub]

good points by all,
even aak
although i do not agree with some of this, he has pointed out good facts, some of which i have seen before and do work. i agree more with the other side of the tang debate(100%) but he has made good points on it and all based upon experince(not rumors he heard)
my only thing with using a tang, as was mentioned the stress and ick factor, if it does happen your tank will be fishless just as long after this then if you had done shrimp
but most of all, it is so nice to see a healthy debate stay healthy and not personal. this one is one of admiration(IMO) b/c the sides were well covered and peaceful
sorry, i just had ot post and say: tanks for keeping it sane guys

 

[midimouse~]

I see, so cycling starts when the ammonia levels go up? How do you know if the tank is done cycling? sorry for all the questions...i'm a newbie. Thanks

 

[sistrmary]

There are test kits that you buy for testing your water. They will tell you your nitrate, nitrite, ammonia and pH levels. (Your basic test kit will, there are more extensive/expensive ones, but the basic ones work fine for most things)
When your ammonia hits -0- your tank is just about through cycling. You still have to wait out the nitrates and nitrites, but the worst of it is over and you start seeing the light when your ammonia rock bottoms.
Don't worry about being a newbie, I know people that have been in saltwater for quite a while and still don't understand how the cycle works.

 

[midimouse~]

ohh, i see...so do the nitrate and nitrite levels just go down by themselves eventually? or what do you do? When all those levels are at 0, you're done cycling then? Thanks, Lam

 

[fshhub]

no prob, nolofinwe.
as I mentioned I agree with you, I just like the way you guys were able to go about it all.
Tanks again.

 

[fishfanny79]

The terms 'overflow' and 'return' are reffering to a sump right? So with my 55 gallon, I wouldn't need to worry about this stuff because I wouldn't have a sump right? Or do I NEED a sump?
Also, I am about the most impulsive buyer anyone has ever met. I am so proud of myself for not buying anything this weekend. I was all pumped up Friday to go buy everything and have fish by Friday night. lol I went to the pet store and just paroused. I was wondering, does anyone here have fish only tanks? My pet store seemed to have lots of weird fish all in the same tank. 1 in particular caught my eye...they had a few lionfish, some puffers and a small, medium and large trigger all in the same tank. Why are they cool with each other at the pet store but not at your home? I looked for the book by Fenner and have not found it yet. I am going to read it before I even start. I think I'm going to set up the 55 gallon as a cichlid tank for now, until I am ready for the salt. Not to mention I need the money in hand right now. I don't really have a lot to throw at a tank. My resident pet store had live rock on SALE for 8$ a pound. Whew, I can get it on the net for a lot cheaper. When the time comes, tbsaltwater.com is the place for me! They will get all of my business...for 540$, I'm gonna get there 'package deal'. In that I will get crabs, snails etc. One question though, why do you get SOOOO many crabs? For a 55 gallon tank, you get like 110 blue crabs etc.
Does anyone have any pics of their beautiful salt tanks that I can oogle at? (since I can't have my own)

 

[fishfanny79]

I have heard lots of people saying that clams are hard to keep...anyone have any scallops? I saw a pic of a 'Flame Scallop' and man, that this is awesome looking.

 

[joerdie]

hello everyone.. i just finished reading this 9 mile long thread and had some obsevations that i would like to speak of.
First I'd like to talk about UV sterilizers. they are great in a FO or FOWLR tank because they do kill the bad stuff, however if you are running a reef and trying to keep lots of inverts/corals they tent to STUNT their growth, not KILL.
The other thing is i want to again, (as i have done before) commit heresy by stating this tap water is OKAY to use. now before you write back telling me what an idiot i am listen to this. i have had 7+ tanks not counting refugiums and hospital tanks. i have never used RO water and do not own an RO/DI unit. this is for two reasions. first i live in cincinnati and have tested my local water many times. i can tell you that cinci water is great for reefs and has no amonia or trates/trites, it has lots of calcium and a little iodine wich most of you are adding to your tranks anyway. second before i put the water in the tank i run a powerhead in it for about 24 hours. i dont add any declor (because it evaps very quickly) my sugestion is TEST your tap water sometimes it is fine!!! (sorry for the long post)

 

[jim672]

I'll jump back in this one just long enough to say I wasn't as lucky as joerdie and, I assume aak420 are. My tap water is full of phosphates and silicates and was partially resonsible for a nasty algea problem I had until I bought a DI unit, a protein skimmer and a good clean-up crew.
Certainly joerdie's advice to have tap water, THOROUGHLY, tested before use in any sw tank should be followed. The consequences of not doing that can be long-lasting and expensive!
Jim

 

[lurch694u]

joerdie,
First I'd like to talk about UV sterilizers. they are great in a FO or FOWLR tank because they do kill the bad stuff, however if you are running a reef and trying to keep lots of inverts/corals they tent to STUNT their growth, not KILL.
I run a reef with inverts and corals. I also run a UV Sterilizer and my coral are growing beautifully. Are you saying this because UV kills plankton? Protien skimmers kill as much plankton as a UV sterilizer. I never had a outbreak of parasites or ick while running my UV. IMO:If ain't broke don't fix it...

 

[jayster]

Great thread people. One question from me, one of the last responses referring to tap water said that de-clorinating agents evaporate quickly. I wonder if I should worry. As it is I find myself replacing 1-2 gallons of phoenix tap water a week into my 28 gal due to general evap. When I do, I give each new dose a squirt of AmQuel and a much smaller squirt of NovAqua. Does this sound appropriate?

 

[fshhub]

i personally do NOT and will NOT run UV, it is fine for a fish only tank
But i have never ever seen ich with or without one(33 yrs), so IMO they are marginally effective and can be run without their use. In other words, PROPER care can eliminate the need for one completely. I believe a Q-tank is much more improtant.
as for the skimmers, they do not kill as much as the UV filters do, in fact they do not kill much at all(maybe remove some, but that is it. UV on the other hand does kill alot of this stuff(and yet has to be proven to actually work for ich prevention).

 

[lurch694u]

Why did someone say that UV stunts coral growth??? Never heard that one yet...

Look out!!!! Giant tree sponge!!!!

 

[lurch694u]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[joerdie]

lerch694u
if you are having thaty kind of growth with a UV then just imagine what kind of growth you could have without it. it is science fact that UV sterilizers kill everything NOT JUST THE BAD!! so currently you are killing good stuff that will help that "giant tree sponge" grow. on a different note though and NOT to sound like a braggart but mines bigger