Help.....Nitrate Problems!

[reef dude]

My 90 gallon tank is nearing the end of its cycle, the ammonia is about 0.01ppm or 0.02ppm, nitrites are 0, however my nitrates are 10 ppm. Right now there are 50 scarlets, 50 turbos, and 100 blue legs(tiny ones). I am seeing lots of bubbles in my sand and up against the glass, is this nitrogen gas? and does that mean its the end of the cycle? I am planning on putting in some TLC to maybe get the nitrates down b/c i want some anemones and clownfish. What do you think i should do to get these nitrates down? waterchange? add some sort of supplement? Help!! thanks!
also i am getting tons of brown algae, its really ugly, should i let the critters work on it?

 

[beth]

If your tank is cycling you really shouldn't have any animals in it. What type of setup do you have? What did you use for your substrate? And, how deep is it? What filters do you have? How much LR?

 

[justin_ny]

my nitrate is also 10 ppm right now. but iam doing fine with all my coral. the all healthy and in great shape. as a matter of fact my musroom is split and my galxia is grow to live rock.
take your time, if u want to low the nitrate get mangrove or caulerpa and try to build refugium.

 

[justin_ny]

by the way are using still using wet/dry filter??
if u do try to get rid of the bio ball because it produce nitrate.

 

[lnarobbins]

a nitrate level of 10ppm is not terribly bad imo
if your tank is in your opinion "done" cycling then I would try a water change keeping in mind that if you do a 25% change then your nitrates will go down 25%. if you do a 50% change then 50% reduction.
just my opinion
Alan

 

[adrian]

Nitrates have to be in high concentrations to have any real ill effects, with the exception of algae growth. You say your tank is nearing the end of the cycle, just leave it alone and give it a few more days. If the tank is still cycling then a water change will only prolong it. HTH

 

[reef dude]

thanks guys, i would like to do a water change however, i can still see many bubbles underneath my DSB of 4". its aragonite mixed with live sand, bout 120 lbs or so. i also have 100 lbs of live rock, and then the 200 or so critters in there now. The algae has decreased, but just barely, i would like to scrub some of it out, or should i still let them work on it?
Would it be safe to add two clowns in a few days?

 

[reef dude]

I am still running the wet dry, if i take out the bioballs, what should i put in its place? carbon pouches?? if i dont, replace them with anything, then whats the point of having this huge wet/dry? and by the way, my skimmer isnt in there yet either because i was waiting for everything to completely settle down.

 

[beth]

IMO, nitrates in a reef system is not good—any nitrates. You want to aim for zero or very close to it. And with a dsb that shouldn't be difficult.
I'd say you are way overloaded for a new system with 200 creatures. Algae is a natural process for your newly cycled reef tank and a vital food source for all of the snails you have in the tank. If you try to get rid of the algae, including the diatoms, all of those snails will die. Keep the front glass crystal clear and let the side and back glass get covered. In a few months, as the turbos get large, they will keep your glass clean.
I will say that you really have too many crabs in there for a reef setup. All of those crabs will become a nuisance once they start growing and when you start trying to add corals in your tank.
For a true DSB system, you really just need LS [preferably 6” with a diversity of grain particles ranging from approx .02-1.7], LR, a protein skimmer and circulation pumps. You can add a sump to house equipment. That wet-dry is wasted equipment on a DSB, however, the added volume of water is always a plus. I would definitely take out the bioballs, and would not use carbon continuously. If you use filter pads, clean or change them weekly.
Are you aiming for a reef tank? It looks that way to me which is why I would not recommend the continuous use of carbon filtration or filter fine meshed pads for that matter. You are filtering out essential water-bound micro organisms by processing them thru theses filters.
You DSB needs epifauna and infauna organism. [creatures that live on and in sand] to establish that DSB [your primary source of filtration], not so many crabs, though [a few will be ok]. Starter kits with these organisms can be obtained from <a href="http://ipsf.com/" target="_blank">ispf</a> and <a href="http://inlandaquatics.com/prod/prod_detrit.html" target="_blank">detritivore kits</a> . While the turbo snails are fine, biodiversity is the key element to the establishment of a balanced, nearly self sustaining reef system. I would leave in a few crabs, and add a variety of species of snails, including the fighting conch. Worms are the name of the game for the your infauna and you need to populate the DSB with as much biodiversity in this area as possible.
But it all depends on what type of system you are aiming for. With the DSB you mention, I assume you are attempting to establish a reef system with a natural filtration of LR and DSB. If you are shooting for a different type system, then it would help us to know that so that we can give you the best advise.

 

[jlem]

Your bioballs are not creating nitrate like someone said. The bacteria on the bioballs are creating nitrate, and until nitrate bacteria grows in the sand or in the rocks you are going to have nitrate. No system will instantly have no nitrates unless you get rock from a fully established tank. A low nitrate count won't hurt any thing and carbon won't strip your tank of vital trace elements. It will absorb some, but not all of them. A skimmer will remove just as much if not more trace elements than carbon will and carbon will remove harmful junk in the aquarium. I use carbon 24/7 and a skimmer on my 90 gal reef and besides calcium, the only trace elements that my tank gets is a 5 gallon water change every week with Kent salt. Use the bioballs and carbon until your tank is very well established. Use a prefilter before the bioballs, and rinse it weekly to remove solid waste from the tank before it can break down. Good luck with the tank.
Oh yay, and before I am told that My way is not the only way "this is just my opinion that has worked for me" Thank you

 

[ed r]

If you are aiming for a reef tank, Elizabeth's post above gives the best advice. The wet-dry is not needed. If you use it, remove all of the bio-balls and use it as a sump only. The live rock is your main biological filter and the DSB with the appropriate fauna will eliminate the nitrate. Given a chance your snails should take care of the algae (if the nitrate doesn't get out of hand) although an assortment might be a lot better than 50 of one kind. I don't think the 150 crabs will do much good for you.
IMO most newly cycled tanks DO have instantly NO measurable nitrates. The live rock added initially contains the necessary seed bacteria. The ammonia produced by the die-off rises slowly to a peak and drops. This peak is followed by a rise and peak in nitrite. When the nitrite drops, there is no corresponding peak of nitrate to go through. The necessary bacteria have already built up to the appropriate levels. When your nitrite drops to zero, I would wager you will measure near zero nitrates as well. If you don't, something is wrong.
As mentioned earlier, there are many varied opinions and different ways to approach a reef system. IMO follow Elizabeth's advice.

 

[nm reef]

All of the advice is on track in my opinion....there are numerous ways to establish and maintain a reef...and they all work!
I'd only add that in your case it sounds like a system that is just beginning to complete its cycle. The algae bloom and nitrates are natural and will balance out as the cycle completes and the system becomes mature. At this point I would not do a water change...myself I would wait until after the cycle is complete and the system is stable. True you may be a bit heavy on the snails and crabs at this point but nothing to get excited about...they will fend for themselves and should begin to reduce the algae and diatoms. Below is a great overall link to reefkeeping info that may help you out....let the system become stable and mature....and be patient...you will be glad you did.
<a href="http://www.reefcorner.com/reef%20keeping_101.htm" target="_blank">reefkeeping 101</a>

 

[byrself]

i agree with beth also. all your filtration should be in the sand and live rock. all that extra filtration with bioballs can take the bacteria out of the tank and into the filter. a more stable system needs the bacteria in the tank. i'd just use the wet/dry as a sump to put your equipment in, or turn it into a small refugium. for a true reef setup imo.
also, i have slight nitrate readings, due to not having a dsb, but it doesn't seem to cause problems. everything i have grows fine. i only have one fish now, and that helps i believe. jmo.

 

[reef dude]

thanks for all the input guys!! i really appreciate....now hopefully i can clarify some things for you..
I am planning on having this tank become a stable reef. I have 100 lbs of LR and plan on keeping that amount, maybe adding more as things settle down.
Ok, now i just put 200 critters in there to hopefully clean up the algae. The only level that is up is the nitrates, as you all know.
Now i really feel lost on what to do, i am getting so many different opinions.
Heres what i plan on doing:
Taking out my bio balls and replacing them with a sponge and some chemi-pure carbon.
as for the live rock, you say that they will give me all the filtration i need. It appears that there is fairly good amount of silty sediments that have deposited underneath all the rocks, is that normal? for the side of the tank, you can see a little bit of it, should i siphon this stuff out or is good to have?
basically, i feel completely lost on what i should do, If you were in my position, what would you do, and how long would it take?
should i take out some critters or let them be?
do a water change, or not?
also, how long are these bubbles going to be producing in my sand????

 

[reef dude]

i just added a teaspoon of biozyme, its good bacteria that is supposed to help with the nitrogen cycle and i also pulled a handfull of bio balls out, good idea?

 

[reef dude]

this stuff i put in looks like fish flakes, anybody out there please respond to my last big reply!

 

[ed r]

I don't like additives in general. I dose with Kalk and presently don't add anything else. I would hesitate to keep adding the things you have.
These sediments under the rocks, are they just fine particles of sand or something else? Your sandbed may be just on the edge of the depth for a DSB (minimum recommended is 4") but I would still approach it as such. That means do not mess with the sandbed. Do not stir it. Do not vacuum it. Do not remove sediments or detrius. There should be creatures developing in the sandbed that are going to take care of all that for you. If you siphon the stuff out, you remove their food source and the creatures you need do not multiply as fast.
I have become anti-crab, but I would suggest leaving them in and just watching them closely. If they help with the algae and do not harm the snails, leave them in there. If they start to cause problems, then remove them. For now, I think you will have to be patient. Do hold off on adding any fish until things stabilize. Let the crabs and snails have a chance to work. If you add fish and they struggle with ich or something, you will wish you had waited. You don't want to ever add medication to your reef tank. Trying to catch fish in the reef without removing most of the rock is hopeless for me. Let the crabs and snails work and keep testing your water. Do not use any additives without very good reason. The more stuff you dump in there the more unexpected complications you may have to deal with. It also makes it much more difficult to identify what is causing the problems. Good luck.

 

[byrself]

stay away from the carbon idea..just go with a sponge filter, and clean it regularly. imo.