Help Nitrate!!!

[elmo0807]

I am a newbie to the Saltewater Community....I have purchased a 30gal on Craigslist that had been establish since August of 2008. When I got it it had 4 fish in it 30lbs of LS and 60lbs of LR. All perams where fine Amonia=0, Nitrite=0 and Nitrate=0...For the past week I have been battleing Nitrate at around 80 (not good I know). Since I bought a month ago I have added 4 more fish, 10lbs of CairbSea LS, 10lbs of LR a, pistol shrimp, 2 cleaner shrimp, 3 peppermints and a Blue Linchia. I need help with this Nitate issue

. Oh, I have AquaC Remora and Power Filter (***** brand)

 

[tank a holic]

water changes to get rid of the trates
you're probubly overstocked

 

[natclanwy]

One of the first problems I see is 8 fish is probably too many for a 30g system especially when one of them is a tang. What are your other fish? Also adding four fish in month will upset a system that small because there isn't enough extra biofiltration to handle the extra bioload. Since you have coral I would start with water changes and then look at the fish you have and decide which ones you can live without starting with the tang and try and get the number of fish back down to about 4.
Also the linkia will most likely starve in a system that small, they need a large system with large quanties of LR to feed off of.

 

[elmo0807]

The fish I have are Purpleback Pseudochromis, 3 Clowns (2 false and 1 B&W Percula), Pygmy Angelfish, Yellow Tang, Scissortail Goby and a Pink and Blue Goby. My wife would kill me

if I got rid of the Tang. Is there a way to maintain the amount of fish I have? They all look good, feed good and swim good?

 

[bs21]

I agree with what nat said above and also adding sand and rock to the tank after setup can sometimes create some negative water quality issues.
Im sorry as your fish grow they will end up polluting the water even more with the ammount of food they need and the ammount of waste they produce. there could also be a problem with your clowns attacking one another till there are just 2 left.
water changes will help to reduce nitrates but it will only be temporary. tangs unfortunately need alot of swimming room and a 30g won't be sufficient in my opinion.
I'm glad you came to the boards for help but please don't take any comments as an attack because people are going to try and give you a crash course in SW. most important thing in this hobby is reasearch on requirements of the animals you are trying to keep and understanding how those animals affect/ interact with their environment in a closed system.

 

[natclanwy]

About the only way to maintain the amount of fish you have would be to upgrade to a larger tank. I don't like to get on the tank size and tang bandwagon but ultimately a 30g tank is much to small for open swimmers like tangs the general consenses is at least a six foot long tank but I have kept them successfully in a 55g system although mine hasn't grown much which may be an indication that the tang is not as healthy as it appears.
Agreed you can increase your water changes to reduce the nitrates but it is only a temporary solution, and you can add a sump and refugium to help export nitrates but ultimately you will either need to reduce the bioload or increase the tank size or nature will take its course and reduce the bioload on its own.

 

[bs21]

larger tank or a fairly substantial sump compared to tank size with a fuge could help with nutrient export also but still i think tang needs to go.

 

[elmo0807]

I appriciate any advice or opions that any experienced reefer would have. So far the clowns are getting alone like old buddys

. So the Tang would be the most serious issue in the tank? The new LR I added is now turning brown is that normal?

 

[natclanwy]

The tang is definitely the most serious issue, followed by the three clowns you might be lucky and they will always get along fine but clowns have a fairly significant bioload so they will always push the limits of your system if you were to keep them.
The brown on your LR is most likely a diatom outbreak and is fairly normal with new tanks or in your case where you started a new cycle with the additions of new rock, sand and four more fish at a relatively quick pace. It will clear up on its own as your tank matures and you get the nitrates under control.

 

[bs21]

yea sounds to me like you may be having a mini cycle because the bio load of fish and food/waste is overwhelming the bacteria that break it down and filter it. A decent size water change in my opinion will need to be done to help keep these levels from going any higher. 30-50% of total tank volume. also 5% water changes should be done weekly to remove waste and replace elements necessary to the health of the system.
do you have your own test kits and a hydrometer?
do a search for sumps and sumps with refugiums. the algea in a refugium basically uses the nitrate to grow and as it grows you can cut some out and throw it away. this is nutrient export same thing as your protein skimmer does but the protein skimmer removes the food and waste before it breaks down. The added water volume will also help to dilute these levels and the refugium usually has sand and rock to provide more filtering.
also keeping a pair of clowns is possible my meaning before is that the odd man out if they decide to fight will be the problem. clowns usually prefer to be in pairs and become very territorial sometimes.

 

[elmo0807]

I do have my own test kit for reef and saltwater. I have been checking levels daily nervous of the nitrate spike. How long can a mini cycle take? I did do a 33% water change on Tuesday. I did find a sponge that a buddy of mine gave me from his tank that had died (never doing the sponge hiang again). Could that have produced more of a problem?

 

[bs21]

I appriciate any advice or opions that any experienced reefer would have.QUOTE]
I think this is an excellent attiutude to take. Learn from others mistakes and successes, research and find a system that works for you and allows you to enjoy this hobby problem free (most of the time at least

).

 

[elmo0807]

I was just looking at the tangs reecommended tank size and I am way under. it says a 75g min. I will most likely take the Tang out. What about the other fish. The clowns like I said before they get along great. oh, i forgot to mention that my LFS had recommended me to get 2 Flamming Scallops any opions? I did buy two (im a sucker)

 

[bs21]

the sponge will contribute to nitrates when it dies but it died as a result of the nitrate level most likely. a mini cycle can last for a couple days to weeks. it depends on how outof balance the water is. the most important thing of having a mini cycle is that you don't want ammonia or nitrite to be present. by doing regular larger water changes it will help to keep the impact of the cycle down in the aquarium but as i said before this is only a short term solution to the tanks issue. the main concern is reducing the bioload to the level where the tanks filtration can handle it ....or increasing the systems ability to handle a larger bioload (as in the sump and fuge method) which personally is how i have my 30g set up. the downside to the sump though is it will take more investment $ on your part to set up.

 

[elmo0807]

if you don't mind me asking how much did a sump for your 30g run you?

 

[elmo0807]

What about a DeNitrater?

 

[bs21]

well couldn't really tell you a price the one I have was a wet dry filter that I added a refugium to. but a pre built sump that is something similar would cost around $100 or more. actually i can send you a rivate message of a website i and probably alot of other people have ordered from that has a decent deal going on right now. The problem is there is added costs because you need an overflow to drain water from the tank down to the sump. which would be 50-75 dollars (you will need this whichever sump option *read below*). also you need a return pump to send water back up to tank. depending on gph make etc.. could be another $50 dollars or so. also there are hang on back sumps that can be used that are usually all in one deals but are pricier.
the other sump option is to diy one yourself out of a 10-20gallon glass tank some pvc and maybe some glass panes to section this off. for the glass pane section check out the link on the pm i will send you and you will see what i mean. (search for DIY sump)
3rd sump option is making a sump out of a rubbermaid container. this doesn't always look pretty but if it can be concealed in a standor somewhere out of sight i is definately the least expensive option (use search feature to find examples)
lastly the option that involves spending the least money is to simply reduce the number of fish back to 4 maybe 5(smaller fish) to reduce the load on the current setup.
de nitrater could help but personally i have no experience with them so can't comment on their effectiveness and still may not make a significant impact on the system due to the bio load

 

[elmo0807]

I appriciate all the advice i will figure out which one to try. I definately agree with you on Tang to little of a tank. I will keep you posted on the out come of my little community. Thanks alot