Help please!

[mtsuguy]

I went to the LFS and picked up a few fish Friday evening and one of my purchases was a raccoon butterfly. I brought in a water sample to the store and they said that everything looked good and in the QT they would put in some live rock for while and to take it out and sub in some PVC if he starting showing signs of ick or some other disease. In the QT I also placed a cleaner shrimp. All the parameters are correct, I check the levels 2 times a day all though my Trite and Trate levels are starting to rise a bit (Trite .25-.5, trate 20). Trite was at 0 and trate was at less that 5 ppm before adding the fish. Water and LR are from the DT the fish will be going into, he was drip acclimated for 4 hours before adding to QT. He has some large white spots that appear when the lights are off that appear to get fade when the light is turned on. I am concerned about the fish because he is acting like he has seizers and his respiration is high. Also my cleaner shrimp is picking at his gills. I do not see any visible white specks on the fish but a lot of this looks like the symptoms of ick. Should I treat him?

 

[mtsuguy]

He just moved to the corner of the tank and it looks like he is caughing... What do I do?

 

[nicetry]

Did you just set up the QT for this fish or had it been established for awhile?
Did you put any other fish in the QT?
What is the pH reading?
The fish is obviously in distress but it's hard to tell what the problem is. It might be parasitic. The large white spots may simply be stress coloration that many fish exhibit at night. My butterfly does the same thing.
Describe your QT set up in detail; filtration, parameters, etc..

 

[mtsuguy]

It is a 10 gallon, the water is from my DT which has been cycled. 5lbs of LR from the display, standard filter it came with the tank from the LFS just a simple carbon filter, there is an airstone and a heater set at 76 degrees. sg is 1.024, ammonia 0, Trite .25-.5, trate 20) pH 8.3.

 

[mtsuguy]

This tank was set up a week before the fish was added.

 

[nicetry]

Again, when exactly did you set up the Q tank? Adding water and rock from a cycled tank doee not mean the QT is cycled, and in fact the tank would have to cycle all over again when you add fish. This could be your problem.

 

[mtsuguy]

It was set up December 21. I knew I wanted fish and I had to wait until the 28th to get them due to me being out of town for christmas. The shrimp just set up shop again on the fish, the fish doesnt seem to be liking those pinchers in his gills either.

 

[nicetry]

Like a display tank, a QT has to cycle and "age" a bit before it is suitable for fish. As the fish is using the services of the shrimp, it does sound like parasites. A fish can have these w/o visible symptoms. Since the shrimp is still alive, the water can't be a main issue (yet). Personally, I'd remove the shrimp and begin lowering salinity. Read the FAQ's on hyposalinity at the top of this forum.

 

[mtsuguy]

Should I let the shrimp finish picking at the fish or wait until he has finished?

 

[nicetry]

Originally Posted by mtsuguy
Should I let the shrimp finish picking at the fish or wait until he has finished?
The shrimp might continue to service the fish as long as it is in the tank, so remove it soon so you can begin treating the fish.

 

[sepulatian]

If you are going to perform hyposalinity, you will need a refractometer.

 

[mtsuguy]

I do not have a refractometer, I read about that last night before I did anything. The fish is still alive today and the shrimp is still picking at his gills. I am about to go to my lfs and pick up some copper based meds. I have already placed the shrimp and the lr back into the DT. Is there anything I need to know about using copper meds other than they affect the pH and the salinity?

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by mtsuguy
I do not have a refractometer, I read about that last night before I did anything. The fish is still alive today and the shrimp is still picking at his gills. I am about to go to my lfs and pick up some copper based meds. I have already placed the shrimp and the lr back into the DT. Is there anything I need to know about using copper meds other than they affect the pH and the salinity?
Be sure you have a copper test kit....you need to be fairly exacting with that stuff. It might cost the same for the copper meds and the test kit as it would to get a refractometer, depending on how much your LFS sells the refractometers for. That, and you can always use your refractometer going forward, so it's a good investment...imo.

 

[m0nk]

Fyi, as a reference, I got a nice refractometer with temp adjustment for $45 from my LFS.

 

[mtsuguy]

I just got a RHS-10ATC from an online store for 19.99 with shipping. Retail was 42.99 so I guess that was a good price, I just have to wait 4 days for it to get to my house. My friend is letting me borrow his until then. This is a very expensive hobby

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by mtsuguy
I just got a RHS-10ATC from an online store for 19.99 with shipping. Retail was 42.99 so I guess that was a good price, I just have to wait 4 days for it to get to my house. My friend is letting me borrow his until then. This is a very expensive hobby

Haha, that is very true. Just wait until you get into larger tanks, frag tanks, better lighting, it starts racking up quicker than you think.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by mtsuguy
I do not have a refractometer, I read about that last night before I did anything. The fish is still alive today and the shrimp is still picking at his gills. I am about to go to my lfs and pick up some copper based meds. I have already placed the shrimp and the lr back into the DT. Is there anything I need to know about using copper meds other than they affect the pH and the salinity?
The copper will not effect your salinity. Be sure to get a good copper like cupramine. Follow the directions that Beth has listed for copper treatment. Do not lower the salinity if you are going to treat with copper. Copper is lethal at lower salinities. Be sure to test your copper level daily durring the treatment. You will not be able to use this qt again for anything other than fish.

 

[mtsuguy]

Originally Posted by m0nk
Haha, that is very true. Just wait until you get into larger tanks, frag tanks, better lighting, it starts racking up quicker than you think.
Instead of being nickeled and dimed to bankrupcy they just go ahead and take your $20 and $100 right from your pocket

. I looked into a 120g before i got my 55 and it was going to cost over twice as much to set up, moslty becuase of the live rock. At my lfs that stuff is 9.99lb and getting 120lbs cost $1400 after tax. Those MH lights are high too, $500 for the ballast and $80 a bulb... I need to win the lottery before I take on that size aquarium. I imagine the electricity bill from running the pumps and the heaters and lights would cost a pretty crisp $50 or more a month as well. I have ran into a nice older guy in my town who is getting out of the hobbie that has a 180 gallon that he has had for 10 years complete with everything he said that I could have for $800

, but that will be a year or two until I can buy my own house. I dont think the floor in my apt. will hold up to that weight

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by mtsuguy
Instead of being nickeled and dimed to bankrupcy they just go ahead and take your $20 and $100 right from your pocket

. I looked into a 120g before i got my 55 and it was going to cost over twice as much to set up, moslty becuase of the live rock. At my lfs that stuff is 9.99lb and getting 120lbs cost $1400 after tax. Those MH lights are high too, $500 for the ballast and $80 a bulb... I need to win the lottery before I take on that size aquarium. I imagine the electricity bill from running the pumps and the heaters and lights would cost a pretty crisp $50 or more a month as well. I have ran into a nice older guy in my town who is getting out of the hobbie that has a 180 gallon that he has had for 10 years complete with everything he said that I could have for $800

, but that will be a year or two until I can buy my own house. I dont think the floor in my apt. will hold up to that weight

Yeah, I know what you mean. I had a 12 gallon nano setup before buying a house. I went to a 55 gallon right away, had everything purchased and ready to put together the week I moved in. Of course, now I have a bigger QT, am setting up a 20L frag tank (complete with MH) and am putting a used 180 setup in next month. The live rock in my area is a bit better, and you can always look at what they have here on swf.com. It's a great price and free shipping. It comes out to less than it is at my LFS for 50 lb, and my LFS sells it for $4.99/lb. There's also cheaper MH lighting fixtures too, but it does take a while to find all the deals. I'd have to say that all the money I'll be saving on the 180 and the 20L frag tank will have taken a year to hunt down. Of course, some times taking the cheaper route can be more expensive in the end, which again, comes down to lots and lots of research for that perfect tank. I'm sure, though, that I'll wish I had spent a little more when the time comes.

 

[mtsuguy]

After adding the 1cc of cupramine the fish went crazy, darting all over the tank for 5 minutes then he just stroked out. Not sure what happened, followed the directions on the bottle to the T, I even added it over a few minutes .25 cc at a time.