Help setting up new tank

[eggy5404]

I will probably be setting up my tank within the next couple of weeks and have a couple of questions.
If I decided to cycle the tank with fully cured lr, do I still need to add a shrimp to start the cycle, or will the rock start the cycle for me?
I read somewhere to put the shrimp in a piece of stocking that way once the cycle starts, it will be easier to get it out. Is this ok to do?
I've also read that the lights should be turned off however if I get the fully cured LR, won't the life on it need the lights to strive?
Do I need to add any sort of powerheads to keep the water flowing?
Thank you guys for all your help.

 

[slick]

If you use cured lr you can add a shrimp if you want but it is not required.
Stocking would be fine IMO
And yes you will need powerheads in your tank. Oh also the life on your rocks does not need light to survive.

 

[elan]

i would add a shrimp if you are getting cured LR... something needs to add ammonia...
about taking it out, i would check a few more posts... i havent tried the shrimp method, but my thinking is that there should be a constant supply of ammonia in order for the bacteria in your biofiltration to survive.... if you take out the shrimp, that may starve your bacteria and by the time you add some fish, it may have to do a mini cycle again. but then again, i could be way off on this since i have no experience in cycling with a shrimp.
lights would be beneficial for your corraline algae (the red stuff on the rocks) but it depends on the type of lighting that you have...
what do you have? and how big of a tank? and then what do you plan on doing with it?
powerheads will just increase your waterflow, which is always a good thing!

 

[eggy5404]

The tank is a 72 gallon bow front and I want to set it up as FOWLR. My plan was to cycle with cured LR but after doing some more research, I think it would be a waste to cycle and possible kill the life on the rock so I may start my cycle with uncure lr and then add some cured lr when the cycle is completed. The only problem I see with this is the tank will be in my living room and I don't want to have the entire house smelling. So now I don't know what I want to do. I do think that I will have a mixture of Kaelini, Marshall and Fuji. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[lemonshark]

1. Add water.
Make sure you leave enough space for the salt.
2. Add Conditioners to the water to remove chlorine and other heavy metals.
Turn on your filter system.
Keep the protein skimmer off (it will slow down the cycle).
3. Add Salt.
Make sure you leave enough space for the LS.
4. Add LS.
5. Wait until it settles.
6. Add Cycle (Beneficial Bacteria) to speed the cycle.
7. Add a dead shrimp
8. Wait one week
9. Remove Shrimp
10. Add LR ( Cured )
11. Add Cycle (Beneficial Bacteria) to speed the cycle.
12. Wait three weeks before inserting invertebrates and fish.
Something I have notice about the cycle of a tank is that you can add only sand and one fish. The cycle process will start slow as the fish produces waste. The small amount of ammonia will start building bacteria. It’s a slow process but it has a control. Adding LR that is uncured will make the ammonia level go up so bad that you will need to help the process by using a protein skimmer and no light to prevent algae growth by the amount of nutrients that are released from the die of (specially from sponges). Water changes are recommended to save the most out of your rocks life. Strong water currents to prevent die of to accumulate in packets or inside holes. It will also help peal things of from the rock into the filter system where it will be process by the growing bacteria.
When you get LR from Fiji that is uncured you will notice that it has huge sponges inside holes and this is the unpleasant part of the curing process. The rock is exposed to air and it will come to you in a foam box with hardly any water (from my experience) and the die of is increased.
I hope that helps!!

 

[ajroc31]

Do not be set on a specific time period. Your tank can cycle in a week, or months depends on how you set it up. My suggestion is to test for the big three once a week. When all the ammonia and nitrites are gone, wait a week and test again to be sure. The way I cycled my 120 gal. was this.
Filled with water 1/2, and let it sit there for a day to amke sure the salinity reading remained constant for a period of time. Sometimes it can drop or go up. It can be a nasty suprise.
2) Add ls. Well actually my bed is made this way: undergravel filter plates. On top of that I have C/Cand finaly ls.
3) Add more water, this time mixing the salt in a bucket, to make sure that you do not add to much salt.
4) Turn on your filtration and once again let it run for the day.
( put some dead sea food. anything. Fish, shrimp, it really does not matter, as long as it will decompose)
5) if it is available, add some old water and ls from an established tank.
6) If the tank is stable for temp. and salinity add lr, but not all of it right away. Do it gradually.
I had my lights running 24/7 during the process. It seems to be common sense, since without light we would never evolve from pond scum. I really do not understand the people who say not to turn on the lights. Lr will die without it.
After awhile you may notice red slime algea growing, do not be alarmed. It feed on nitrates, once excess is gone, it will disappear by itself. A week or two.

 

[elan]

hold up... take a breath... i am not sure these guys are exacty telling you the best way to set up a system....all those methods will work, but you really have to decide what you want, and choose a method and stick to it...
most important:
1) take your time..
2) take your time!
3) TAKE YOUR TIME!!!!
the one biggest thing for success in this hobby is to let things take their natural course.... usually that means it will take much longer than you would like, but... it will mean your tank will become much better off in the long run... and that is key... you want the long run to be as trouble free as possible.........
so.. first thing is first.... i am assuming you understand what cycling your tank means.... (building your beneficial bacteria to a level to support the bioload you are going to add to your tank)...
now... where do you want to keep this bacteria?? this is always a personal choice. you have a few options here..
with a FO tank, many use a Wet/Dry system... the bioballs in these systems will harbor the bacteria you would like.
OR, you can use live rock. same deal as the W/D, but more natural...
there are many pros and cons to using either....usually, if you want live rock, you can forgo the W/D... but if you want to skimp on the rock, you would need a W/D.... IMO, the money spent on a W/D is better used for live rock.
Next...., and the most important part.... The water.
how you setup your water from the start will often lead to either trouble or less trouble....
I would suggest using RO/DI water... if you think about it, buying a RO/DI unit from the start will actually save you lots of money in the long run... i would do it from the start!
No need to condition the water... and conditioners do not take out heavy metals... the metals will end up staying in the tank... reguardless of what conditioner you get... conditioners usually only take out chlorine or chloromine.. with RO/DI.. this is not an issue...
Also, you will need to get phosphate sponges, silicate sponges, carbon sponges to get out all the "bad" elements in tap water... (again, not an issue with RO/DI)... most of the elements will lead to uncontrolable algae problems.
One note.. you will have algae problems no matter what you do.. but using RO/DI will minimize the level of algae you will have to deal with... and it will save you some more money because you wont have to buy algae removers and other chemicals.....
So, i hope i made my point with RO/DI.....
So next up... you will have to decide on a substrate... either crushed coral, bare bottom, or sand.... with most of your substrate (excluding sand) you will have to maintain it by cleaning or vacuming your substrate to get all the food and fishcrap out....
A much better option is sand... no need to clean it... you will end up with more beneficial bacteria that will live in the sand.... and if your sand is deep enough (4-6 inches)... it will aid in your nitrate reduction... search for DSB and read up on alternative (cheep) ways on building a DSB...
now... setting up your system....
if you get uncured or cured rock, you will basically have no issues.... the only time you have issues is trying to add uncured live rock to an established system.
Biggest benefit to uncured rock is price... and dieoff that will help with your ammonia introduction....
never the less, i prefer FIJI... many reasons for that, but i wont go into it here....
your best bet is to setup your tank this way..
Add RODI to your empty tank... get everything circulating...get everything hooked up... make sure you have no leaks, and no problems... if all is good for a few hours, start adding your salt....(many options on type of salt) but get decent salt... not the really cheep stuff, but you are note going to need ultra salt with lots of elements either... (you dont have a reef which need all the elements)
once you have your salinity all set (around 1.022-1.025).. then add your DSB... once that settles, add your LR... (its best to all all your live rock at once).. there will be no worrys later on of adding rock that will minicycle your tank due to some dieoff....
then.. add a store baught shrimp.... for a 70+ gallon, get two large guys... let them sit in some pantyhose type bags (for ease of getting rid of them) and replace them in about two weeks.
The time it will take to cycle will depend on many factors...
1) how much live rock you have
2) how much live sand you have ( you can mix live and dead sand to save cash)
but plan on 3 weeks to 6 weeks....
and thats it... no need for extra cycle stuff, no need for conditioners, no need for anything but the bare nessesities.... and... as an added bonus, your tank will get established much better over the other described setups....

 

[infalable]

nice response elan

 

[langcjl]

This is a great thread, just what I needed tonight! I am sitting here with my new tank(70 gal.), set on stand, 5 bags of southdown, lights, skimmer, filters, all the equipment. This is my first SW tank and I want to do things in the right order. Tonight I am just going to assemble some equipment and have everything ready for the arrival of the live rock. My main question is how much live rock for a 70 gal. FOWLR? I was going to order a 45# box but thought I would ask here first. I dont want to hi-jack this thread but I am in the same situation.

 

[elan]

aww.. thank you Infalable !!!......
one thing i learned from my experience is that i wasted alot of money with all the "quick" chemical fixes....and, in the end, it would have probably taken the same amount of time and alot less problems had i done it the way i described....
langcjl, there is no hijacking of a thread as long as you stay on the original topic (i have strayed on a few sometimes, but your question is a good one, and along the lines of the original topic.)
how much live rock??
you dont want to start a major debate here... some people like alot of swimming room for their FOWLR tanks, others like as much rock as possible to aid in filtration and give your fish more hiding spaces.
But, as a guide, there is no set number per gallon.... i know alot of people say 1 to 1.5 lbs a gallon, but if you use 1lb/gal with Fiji, and 1lb/gal with Fl Aqua, you will get two very different looking setups (the fiji is much less dense with lots of holes and therefore will look probably twice the amount as FL, but... the FL will have the reef look much faster since all the growth that comes with it..) again, a personal choice....
Best bet is to check your wallet first... see how much you have to spend... one thing i noticed, is that unless you really screw up your rock (like treating your tank with copper based medication) There will be lots of people that would be willing to buy your "used" rock, and probably at $4.00/lb or so...(just keep your tank running) so you arnt going to loose alot of money on your rock down the road in case you deside this hobby is not for you (i dont know why you would think that.. but i hear some people do decide to get rid of there tank. )
Another thing to consider, and this is a big consideration, is when you will need to dose your tank (with either vitamines or elements).... how much water does your rock displace??... my 135 main tank has probably 90-100 gallons of Net Water... then add 15 gallons for my sump... and soon to be built (i am going to get to this someday), a 25 gallon fuge......
best bet is to fill up a 5 gallon bucket to the rim, with SALT water.... put in 5 lbs of rock... and see how much water is displaced....... then do an average... (you can do the same for sand)... this will give you a reasonably accurate calculation for your net water.
in your situation... and i really hate you for this... you did well in finding southdown... i cant find it anywhere close to me, even though its taken from just over the gulf stream..
As a suggestion, and i am assuming you are going to plan on adding a bag of live sand, save half a bag of southdown for later use.... after adding your southdown, then adding a layer of live sand for seeding..... you may want to ad another layer of southdown over the live sand in order for your sand to look uniform..... (i made the mistake of not doing this and had the front part of my DSB two very distinct colors..) took a while for me to "push" the live sand down the sides of the tank to get my uniform color.
And, check to see that your skimmer works... but turn it off once you get your tank in the cycle phase..... you dont want to get rid of all the organic material that is trying to get established...
And, i forgot about lighting....
For a FOWLR, lighting is not as important as it would be for a reef.... i would get the cheepest lighting possible that fits your taste for color....... (you may want to go to a reef lateron, and will decide to upgrade your lighting, so dont invest too much here)
Lighting for the rock....the only thing on your rock that would require lighting is Algae (good and bad kind) and Corraline (its an algae too, but a highly acclaimed algae growth) but, the main reason you want the rock is for filtration, and bacteria does not need lighting at all... for the corroline, do reasearch on that one... lots of differnt opinions and reasons people think they got theirs to grow well... my corroline growth??? have no clue!! lol mixture of good lighting, good water, Coral Vital, and tender loving care mixed in with some alternative rock music....
So, you can run your tank in total darkness with no problems (actually, probably less problems since you wont have an algae problem )
but when you get some fish in there, they would probably like to have some light.. (hard for them to read in the dark )
but the daylight/nightime phases do affect them (ask nemo!)
hope that all helps..

 

[eggy5404]

Thanks for your very informative reply. I think you've guided me to a good start for my tank. Here is what I have planned.
I will be using a ro/di unit for water supply. My tank is not RR so I will be using a lifereef overflow box to a sump (20 gallon long under the tank if it can fit..) in the sump I will put my heaters, euroreef skimmer and my return pump with be a mj 900 or 1200.
I will be using a combo of Kaelini and Marshall lr. I think as much as i like the florida lr, I don't want to have the mantis shrimp problem this early in the game. I have 150lbs of southdown for 4-5 inch dsb. I have all my test kits ready and I know I will be buying 3 MJ poweheads.
If there is anything that I forgot to buy, please let me know. Also I still need help setting up my sump. Do I have to put in sections in the sump and if I do, could someone please guide to what each section should be broken down for ..
Thank everyone for their responses.. as a newbie in this hobby we need as much help, suggestions and guidence from people who have been in this hobby awhile. Thanks

 

[elan]

yeah.. get one more thing.... A nice fat cigar!!!!... it sounds like you are going to have one killer setup!!!
for the sump... check out a post by cboyfan2020... he had a nice diagram..

 

[scotts]

Well I thought I would chime in with my uninformed opinion, but Elan blew out of the water (sorry for the pun) anything I could have said.
I will now bow my head and walk humbly away........
Scott

 

[scotts]

Bumping this up for Crazy8
Scott