HELP! wilting bubble coral

[pohtr]

My bubble coral is looking very pitiful. He started looking poor maybe a week ago at most. Everyone else in the tank is fine. He is the only coral. I have 4 fish and a bunch of crabs & snails. Also somewhere around 75 lbs of LR. The tank is about a year old.
perameters:
90gal
salt 1.0245
ammonia 0
temp 79.9
pH 8.2
nitrite 0
nitrate 80 +++ (been that way for a long time and have failed to get it below the red colors)
Also, this is the bubble coral that my friend gave to me. I am using her lights and she has had this particular same Mr. Bubble for well over 10 years with these lights. I know they are not good enough and the very next thing that's being done to the tank is the lighting upgrade. Currently there is only a double regular flourescent, one actinic and one 10K (yes, I know, I know, I know....). I just changed one of the bulbs last night to a marine glo (thought the bulb might have been getting dim since it was at the 6 month point).
Any helpful ideas? Strange bubble diseases?

 

[hsanchez]

I'm no expert but you need more lighting for the bubble. I'm bringing one back from near death at the moment who was under lighting simliar to your for 2 month. It's been about a month and a half under MH's and it has still not fully recoverd.

 

[essop3]

Bubbles are pretty low light corals but they wil not live under normal output lighting. Those nitates have got to be stressing it too. What about flow? They don't like to be in a really turbulent area.

 

[pohtr]

Yes, I know, I know I need more lighting and I'm going to upgrape very soon. In the meantime I wonder why he would be o.k. with this lighting for so long and then have trouble. Maybe I let my bulb get too weak. It's hard to keep track of which one got replaced last and with what.
The flow, well, there's a little movement there when the wave thingy moves that way but it's not blowing directly on the bubble.
I'm going to try to post a pic.
Thanks for your help

 

[nate0729]

if it's been under those lights for that long and no problems, then it's probably your nitrates. 80's way to high. Gotta find a way to lower them.

 

[pohtr]

I'm concerned about my nitrates also. The water changes don't make any difference at all as far as I can tell. I've not tried them every week though. I have a protein skimmer that seems to be working (how much should it produce anyway?) The fuge's been running for about 5 months. One cube of food lasts for about 2-3 feedings (I worry that I'm underfeeding if anything). Maybe I need more LR? Would it help if I moved the bubble way up near the surface of the water? He's about 6" down now when he's not wilted, that is.
Thanks

 

[toyshika]

Is your tank over stocked? What do you have in there?

 

[pohtr]

I have 4 fish: A clarki clown, a flame angel, a pseudochromis and a blue/green chromis.
Surely that's not too much for a 90 gal, even if I'm a little light on the LR?
Tomorrow we're doing another water change. I think I will also replace the other bulb just in case (the next time I get out). Everyone else in the tank looks fine.
Mr. Bubble looks really pitiful though.
Thanks for your help.

 

[essop3]

Check your source water. I know I was dumping phosphates into my water with every water change because my r/o filters were shot.
I wouldn't spend the money on new NO bulbs unless you are getting alot of algae. I'd save the money for PC, VHO, or halides.

 

[pohtr]

One of the reasons I don't have good lighting is because I thought the water quality was more urgent and so I've gotten the TyphIII and its finally up and running. So I will assume that the source water is fine.
Also we did a 25 gal water change this a.m. (what a pain), but the nitrates didn't look much different when I tested them a few minutes ago. Maybe a little more orange and a teensie bit less red.
So, if I did 25 gal in a 90 gal tank with 75 lbs LR and a sump holding about 10 gal, how do I figure out what % change that was? Or better yet, how do I figure how many gallons would be 20%? How many gallons does the LR take up
Mr. Bubble looks worse today.
I don't want him to die!

 

[sac10918]

My bubble started to wilt about a month ago when my nitrates were at 20, so I am pretty sure that its your nitrates that are killing mr. bubbs. I know that they can be really hard to lower. It took me over a month to get them down in my nano. What I did was a bunch of water changes in a row, but this really didnt seem to lower anything. My LFS suggested lowering one of my pumps and aiming horizontally going across the back of the tank to eliminate dead areas where waste was piling up. Its a fine line because you dont want to stir up too much sand though. I also put some cheato in my tank. Finally, I bought a phosban reactor ($40) at the LFS and put some carbon in it. Within a few days, my nitrates were way down and now my bubble is happy again. I really think it was the phosban with the carbon which did it since nothing else seemed to work.
If I were you, I would concentrate on lowering your nitrates rather than your lighting.
How often are you cleaning your media? Nitrates can build up in there.
Good luck!

 

[pohtr]

That sounds like a good thing to do. Correct for any dead spots & get a phosban. What's a phosban do? Would it work to put a charcoal bag in where the filter medium is? Cause it would be easier to come up with the charcoal around here than the phosban (no lfs within an hour).
There used to be just a big sponge in the sump between the income & outgo and I was told to leave it there for the beneficial bacteria in it. However, when I converted the sump to a fuge I now keep poly fiberfill in there and change it whenever it looks dirty.
I feel like there's hope for Mr. Bubble now.

 

[sac10918]

The phosban reactor is a little component that you can add different media to which abosrb things in the water. For example, I added Matrix Carbon by Seachem to the reactor, and it abosorbed some of my nitrates. I am not sure about adding a charcoal bag. I don't believe they are as effective as the reactor because not much water flows through them. The phosban reactor has an intake and outake pump which forces water through the carbon, and thus the carbon absorbs the nitrates. If its really hard to get to the LFS, try getting one at auction online if you know what I mean.
I don't know anything about polyfiber fill unfortunatley. It sounds like a place for nitrates to hide. If you are going to keep using it, make sure you change it at least every week, maybe more often.
Lastly, are you testing calcium in the tank? THe bubble needs calcium to grow its skeleton. I use B ionic two part calcium addition twice a week in my nano.
I am sure the bubble will pull through if you get your nitrates down.
Also, have you ever fed it? I feed mine some meaty foods once a week. I gently put the meat near its mouth and it eats it. I dont think its necessary but its probably a good idea.
Also, when you do a water change, what type of water do you use? Are you mixing your own? IF so, you must use Reverse Osmosiss water. Some distilled water and tap water can have nitrates in it among other things.
So to recap, here are my suggestions..
1. Get a phosban reactor and add some sperical Matrix Carbon
2. Increase the flow in dead areas
3. Do water changes using RO water only
4. Replace media often (possibly even remove the polyfibber fill, bio balls, ceramin rings, at least temporarily)
5. Dose calcium for the bubble
6. Maybe get some nitrate absorbing cheato for your sump
Hopefully Mr. Bubble will pull through!
Here is a pic of my phosban reactor, to help you get an idea. You can even see my lowered pump in the background to reduce dead areas and my cheato (i dont have sump with a light so it has to go in my display tank)

And here is a pic of my bubble...

 

[pohtr]

Thanks Sac,
Mr. Bubble's already looking better!!!!! I am sooo relieved.
Last night I used what I had which was a little filter bag and put 2 little bags of carbon in it and placed it where the most water would be going by, right at the water intake in the fuge.
Just a few minutes ago I checked the nitrates again to see if the carbon lowered them. Looks almost the same to me, maybe a little lower - I just can't seem to tell the diff once its in the red. Could the carbon be removing some other contaminate I didn't know about?
I use the poly fiberfill because I have a huge quantity of it. Mostly it is in that spot in the sump where the sponge used to be and it helps to keep most of the sand on the fuge side (going to rebuild that someday). I'll keep a close eye on it in the meantime.
I'm not testing calcium but I have 4 bottles of stuff that Mr. Bubble gets every couple of weeks or so. I will make sure he gets the calcium every week. I've never fed him. Will do that too.
Water changes are all with great Typh III filtered water (see earlier post).
I've not moved around the PHs yet but I don't think I have any dead spots, have 3 PH going.
Nitrate absorbing cheato: I have grape chelerpa & brillo pad (isn't that chaeto?) and some long thin leaved stuff.
Now, about this reactor, does it need a pump? Or does it come with one? If the object is to have all of the water flow through the carbon, wouldn't it work to make a carbon holding area say in the pipe that water comes into the tank from? How complicated is the reactor to set up? I have had a terrible time with every other installation and that one looks just as scary to me.
Thank you for all your help and taking the time to give me such thorough answers.

 

[sac10918]

It sounds like you are on the right track. Definately do the water changes, feed mr. bubbs, and dose calcium (but make sure you test for it so that you don't overdose calcium which can affect your alkalinity). I dont know of the chelerpa and brillo pad are other names for cheato. I have seen people selling it on this site, either under the corals tand trading topic or the classified section. It should cost like $10 for a bag of it and its suppossed to absorb nitrates.
The phosban reactor does not need an addition pump, it has one built in. Thre are two clear tubes which run from the top of the reactor, one pumps "dirty" water into the reactor and the other returns the cleaned water to the tank. Ours was relatively easy to set up. Once you add the carbon, you point the return pump into a bucket and run it for like 30 seconds to remove any initial carbon debris and prevent it from flowing to your tank. THen you can put the return going into the tank. THe little sperical carbon beads need to vibrate at the top and there is a green knob (cut off in the pic) which allows you to adjust the flow of the water through the carbon. If you do end up purchasing one and have trouble setting it up, you can post a thread on here and myself and others can help you figure it out. I dont think placing the carbon bag in front of the pump will be quite as efficient but it could do something, although i am not sure. Like I said, just make sure to throughly clean filter media so nitrates don't build up in there.
And you are very welcome for the advice. I know how it feels when a favorite coral is not doing that great. My frogspawn surprisingly looks relatively poor and its breaking my heart!
One more thing, have you ever had your water tested at the LFS or compared the nitrate reading with another test kit? Sometimes, the test kits can be off. Wouldn't it be great if your trates were really like a 10! Good luck, I am pulling for Mr. Bubble!

 

[pohtr]

Just for an update on Mr. Bubbs. He's wonderful!! Also nitrates are down to 20, finally the fuge is working. He perks up right after every water change, so I know its the water quality. Need to do them more often though. Thanks for all your help!!!