Help with electric.......
- Thread starter 9supratt4
- Start date
M
markeo99
Guest
I would tie 2 less used circuits together and use the space
scsinet
Active Member
Either one of these suggestions would be ideal.
I'd go for the piggyback breaker idea first. Beware, however, that piggyback breakers need to fit into a panel that's designed to take them. The metal blades in the panel that the breakers clamp/clip/slide onto that deliver power (called stabs) are usually shaped differently for positions in the panel that take piggybacks. Some panels won't accept any piggybacks, others accept them in any position, but most accept them in only certain positions.
Long story short, make sure you test fit the breaker in a given location before you go cutting wires so you don't accidentally cut them too short. If the position you are trying to use is wrong, the breaker will not seat fully into the spot.
Of course you can also add a second sub-panel, or replace the existing panel with a larger one, but both processes are very involved and expensive as most homeowners should have an electrician do this, but it will provide the most room for future expansion.
I'd go for the piggyback breaker idea first. Beware, however, that piggyback breakers need to fit into a panel that's designed to take them. The metal blades in the panel that the breakers clamp/clip/slide onto that deliver power (called stabs) are usually shaped differently for positions in the panel that take piggybacks. Some panels won't accept any piggybacks, others accept them in any position, but most accept them in only certain positions.
Long story short, make sure you test fit the breaker in a given location before you go cutting wires so you don't accidentally cut them too short. If the position you are trying to use is wrong, the breaker will not seat fully into the spot.
Of course you can also add a second sub-panel, or replace the existing panel with a larger one, but both processes are very involved and expensive as most homeowners should have an electrician do this, but it will provide the most room for future expansion.
M
markeo99
Guest
OH AND TRY NOT TO FRY YOURSELF SHUT OFF THE MAIN WHEN DOING EITHER
9supratt4
Active Member
Originally Posted by markeo99
http:///forum/post/2727328
OH AND TRY NOT TO FRY YOURSELF SHUT OFF THE MAIN WHEN DOING EITHER
Best piece of information so far!!!
http:///forum/post/2727328
OH AND TRY NOT TO FRY YOURSELF SHUT OFF THE MAIN WHEN DOING EITHER
Best piece of information so far!!!
9supratt4
Active Member
Ok......so I had a friend who is training for his electrical license over to look at my problem. Here are the details:
I have a 200Amp serive, but in the box already are enough breakers for 375Amps. Obviously it's not all being used because I would be tripping my 200 Main all the time. What I wanted to do was install a piggyback 20amp breaker to run the 2 outlets that I will be using for my system, but now I am concerned on pulling more than the 200amp service and tripping the main breaker, because that would then be 395 total amps in breakers in the box.
The equipment I need to run is:
Coralife Aqualight Pro 834 Watt Fixture
3 250 Watt Visi-Therm Heaters
Sedra 5000 pump 50 Watts
2 VorTech Powerheads total of 18 Watts
2 Eheim 1362-310 Return Pumps total of 160 Watts
Which I calculate all the equipment pulling 16.5amps.
Anyone have any ideas?? Is there any way to tell how many amps my entire house is pulling and if its well under the 200??
Please help!!!!
I have a 200Amp serive, but in the box already are enough breakers for 375Amps. Obviously it's not all being used because I would be tripping my 200 Main all the time. What I wanted to do was install a piggyback 20amp breaker to run the 2 outlets that I will be using for my system, but now I am concerned on pulling more than the 200amp service and tripping the main breaker, because that would then be 395 total amps in breakers in the box.
The equipment I need to run is:
Coralife Aqualight Pro 834 Watt Fixture
3 250 Watt Visi-Therm Heaters
Sedra 5000 pump 50 Watts
2 VorTech Powerheads total of 18 Watts
2 Eheim 1362-310 Return Pumps total of 160 Watts
Which I calculate all the equipment pulling 16.5amps.
Anyone have any ideas?? Is there any way to tell how many amps my entire house is pulling and if its well under the 200??
Please help!!!!
M
markeo99
Guest
think about it honestly what are you alwasys running fridge freezer tv ac tv and a few lights unless your welding gota hydroponic closet and got a huge ac I dont think you would be exceeding 200 at 1 time
M
markeo99
Guest
you havent mentioned lights yet thats where I need my dedicated circuit 5x 250watts
9supratt4
Active Member
Originally Posted by markeo99
http:///forum/post/2727572
you havent mentioned lights yet thats where I need my dedicated circuit 5x 250watts
I'm going to be running the Aqualight Pro 3x150 MH, 4x96 Actinics.
I really need to find out how to find out how much of that 200 I still have available. Because if I have alot available then I'll run the 2 dedicated lines.
http:///forum/post/2727572
you havent mentioned lights yet thats where I need my dedicated circuit 5x 250watts
I'm going to be running the Aqualight Pro 3x150 MH, 4x96 Actinics.
I really need to find out how to find out how much of that 200 I still have available. Because if I have alot available then I'll run the 2 dedicated lines.
scsinet
Active Member
Oversubscribing panels is a very common and accepted practice. If I'm not mistaken the NEC does stipulate limits as to how much they can be oversubscribed.
However, in your case, I don't think you are oversubscribed.
You have a 200A main breaker. Homes are fed by two hot legs, each feeding a groupf of 120v breakers, and in some cases, both legs feeding the 240v circuits. That means the breaker will allow 200A on each of the two legs coming in simultaneously.
If you simply added up the amperages of all your breakers, and found 375A, you are actually undersubscribed. 200A * 2 legs = 400amps at 120v. With the exception of the few double pole breakers, the breakers in your box only use one of the two legs, and the two legs are to some extent evenly divided. Most panels have two vertical rows of breakers. It would go something like this for legs A and B.
A A
B B
A A
B B
A A
....
Granted, one leg will probably have a few more 15A breakers versus 20A breakers hanging off of it, so the loading of each leg would not be 100% even, but it would be somewhat close. If you were to apply the above diagram to your breakers and add up all the (A) and all the (B) separately, you'd probably find that they are somewhat close.
So seriously... adding a 20A circuit or two will not cause an issue. If you had access to a clamp-ammeter so you could check the actual amount of current flowing in those two main wires, you'd probably be surprised just how little you have in most conditions. My home commonly pulls about 30-40A on each leg when the AC is running and we have TVs on, lights, and my tank's lights are on.
I run three AC units, an electric dryer, my 180g reef (halides, chiller, the works), and a wood shop with several large machines all on a 150a service and I am nowhere near my limit.
...oh and one last point... if you are adding the tank to the house, you are adding the electrical load whether you add circuits or not. It makes no difference if you have 20 circuits or 100 circuits on your service, the total draw is what matters, so if you are adding that tank, you are putting the load in place whether or not you add breakers for it.
However, in your case, I don't think you are oversubscribed.
You have a 200A main breaker. Homes are fed by two hot legs, each feeding a groupf of 120v breakers, and in some cases, both legs feeding the 240v circuits. That means the breaker will allow 200A on each of the two legs coming in simultaneously.
If you simply added up the amperages of all your breakers, and found 375A, you are actually undersubscribed. 200A * 2 legs = 400amps at 120v. With the exception of the few double pole breakers, the breakers in your box only use one of the two legs, and the two legs are to some extent evenly divided. Most panels have two vertical rows of breakers. It would go something like this for legs A and B.
A A
B B
A A
B B
A A
....
Granted, one leg will probably have a few more 15A breakers versus 20A breakers hanging off of it, so the loading of each leg would not be 100% even, but it would be somewhat close. If you were to apply the above diagram to your breakers and add up all the (A) and all the (B) separately, you'd probably find that they are somewhat close.
So seriously... adding a 20A circuit or two will not cause an issue. If you had access to a clamp-ammeter so you could check the actual amount of current flowing in those two main wires, you'd probably be surprised just how little you have in most conditions. My home commonly pulls about 30-40A on each leg when the AC is running and we have TVs on, lights, and my tank's lights are on.
I run three AC units, an electric dryer, my 180g reef (halides, chiller, the works), and a wood shop with several large machines all on a 150a service and I am nowhere near my limit.
...oh and one last point... if you are adding the tank to the house, you are adding the electrical load whether you add circuits or not. It makes no difference if you have 20 circuits or 100 circuits on your service, the total draw is what matters, so if you are adding that tank, you are putting the load in place whether or not you add breakers for it.
scsinet
Active Member
Originally Posted by 9supratt4
http:///forum/post/2727752
Now i'm completely confused!!
I think i am going to just plug everything in and start turning them on and see if I trip a breaker.
I'm being told that since there is only 2 spots left in my box that the best would be to run a sub-panel. I'm totally lost!!
No... what I said was that one option is to run a sub panel. It's certainly not something that needs to be done to accomplish this safely and effectively. I probably shouldn't have even brought it up.
Seriously... think about this logically... you are adding the tank to your house no matter what, right? So you are adding the electrical load... if you add a tank that pulls 2000 watts to your home, you are adding 2000 watts to your home's electrical requirements whether you add breakers or not. Adding breakers does not increase or decrease the chances of you tripping your main breaker if you are adding the load in either case.
However, where adding breakers DOES make a difference is when adding them means avoiding overloading an existing circuit, which anyone will tell you is very dangerous.
So since you are going ahead with adding the tank, add your piggyback breakers. It's an easy job that is within the scope of a homeowner who is comfortable working with electricity. Don't worry about stuff like the total amperages of your breakers... it makes absolutely no difference if you've already committed yourself to adding the tank.
A lot of your confusion is probably my fault, I get long winded and make things too complicated.
http:///forum/post/2727752
Now i'm completely confused!!
I think i am going to just plug everything in and start turning them on and see if I trip a breaker.
I'm being told that since there is only 2 spots left in my box that the best would be to run a sub-panel. I'm totally lost!!
No... what I said was that one option is to run a sub panel. It's certainly not something that needs to be done to accomplish this safely and effectively. I probably shouldn't have even brought it up.
Seriously... think about this logically... you are adding the tank to your house no matter what, right? So you are adding the electrical load... if you add a tank that pulls 2000 watts to your home, you are adding 2000 watts to your home's electrical requirements whether you add breakers or not. Adding breakers does not increase or decrease the chances of you tripping your main breaker if you are adding the load in either case.
However, where adding breakers DOES make a difference is when adding them means avoiding overloading an existing circuit, which anyone will tell you is very dangerous.
So since you are going ahead with adding the tank, add your piggyback breakers. It's an easy job that is within the scope of a homeowner who is comfortable working with electricity. Don't worry about stuff like the total amperages of your breakers... it makes absolutely no difference if you've already committed yourself to adding the tank.
A lot of your confusion is probably my fault, I get long winded and make things too complicated.
acrylic51
Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/2727631
Oversubscribing panels is a very common and accepted practice. If I'm not mistaken the NEC does stipulate limits as to how much they can be oversubscribed.
However, in your case, I don't think you are oversubscribed.
You have a 200A main breaker. Homes are fed by two hot legs, each feeding a groupf of 120v breakers, and in some cases, both legs feeding the 240v circuits. That means the breaker will allow 200A on each of the two legs coming in simultaneously.
If you simply added up the amperages of all your breakers, and found 375A, you are actually undersubscribed. 200A * 2 legs = 400amps at 120v. With the exception of the few double pole breakers, the breakers in your box only use one of the two legs, and the two legs are to some extent evenly divided. Most panels have two vertical rows of breakers. It would go something like this for legs A and B.
A A
B B
A A
B B
A A
....
Granted, one leg will probably have a few more 15A breakers versus 20A breakers hanging off of it, so the loading of each leg would not be 100% even, but it would be somewhat close. If you were to apply the above diagram to your breakers and add up all the (A) and all the (B) separately, you'd probably find that they are somewhat close.
So seriously... adding a 20A circuit or two will not cause an issue. If you had access to a clamp-ammeter so you could check the actual amount of current flowing in those two main wires, you'd probably be surprised just how little you have in most conditions. My home commonly pulls about 30-40A on each leg when the AC is running and we have TVs on, lights, and my tank's lights are on.
I run three AC units, an electric dryer, my 180g reef (halides, chiller, the works), and a wood shop with several large machines all on a 150a service and I am nowhere near my limit.
...oh and one last point... if you are adding the tank to the house, you are adding the electrical load whether you add circuits or not. It makes no difference if you have 20 circuits or 100 circuits on your service, the total draw is what matters, so if you are adding that tank, you are putting the load in place whether or not you add breakers for it.
http:///forum/post/2727631
Oversubscribing panels is a very common and accepted practice. If I'm not mistaken the NEC does stipulate limits as to how much they can be oversubscribed.
However, in your case, I don't think you are oversubscribed.
You have a 200A main breaker. Homes are fed by two hot legs, each feeding a groupf of 120v breakers, and in some cases, both legs feeding the 240v circuits. That means the breaker will allow 200A on each of the two legs coming in simultaneously.
If you simply added up the amperages of all your breakers, and found 375A, you are actually undersubscribed. 200A * 2 legs = 400amps at 120v. With the exception of the few double pole breakers, the breakers in your box only use one of the two legs, and the two legs are to some extent evenly divided. Most panels have two vertical rows of breakers. It would go something like this for legs A and B.
A A
B B
A A
B B
A A
....
Granted, one leg will probably have a few more 15A breakers versus 20A breakers hanging off of it, so the loading of each leg would not be 100% even, but it would be somewhat close. If you were to apply the above diagram to your breakers and add up all the (A) and all the (B) separately, you'd probably find that they are somewhat close.
So seriously... adding a 20A circuit or two will not cause an issue. If you had access to a clamp-ammeter so you could check the actual amount of current flowing in those two main wires, you'd probably be surprised just how little you have in most conditions. My home commonly pulls about 30-40A on each leg when the AC is running and we have TVs on, lights, and my tank's lights are on.
I run three AC units, an electric dryer, my 180g reef (halides, chiller, the works), and a wood shop with several large machines all on a 150a service and I am nowhere near my limit.
...oh and one last point... if you are adding the tank to the house, you are adding the electrical load whether you add circuits or not. It makes no difference if you have 20 circuits or 100 circuits on your service, the total draw is what matters, so if you are adding that tank, you are putting the load in place whether or not you add breakers for it.
9supratt4
Active Member
See.....I talked to my friend about having the 2 hot legs and he said that I don't have that. Either he doesn't know what he is doing or something.
I just plugged in all the pumps and lights and 1 heater into the outlets and nothing tripped. So I think I'm going to be ok.
I just plugged in all the pumps and lights and 1 heater into the outlets and nothing tripped. So I think I'm going to be ok.