HELP!!!

bammbamm74

bammbamm74

Member
Ok, my powder blue tang died the other day of Ich. (I think) My wife wouldn't let me take him out when he started laying on the floor. Now ALL my fish are VERY BADLY infested. I set up a quarentine tank yesterday. In there I have my Mandarin Gobi, Perc Clown, Lawnmower Blennie, and Blue Damsel.
I bought some "Saltwater Coppersafe" by Mardel Laboratories. Anyone use this? This morning, the fish looked HORRIBLE. I turned the lights off last night. The PH is good and salt is at 1.017. (hyposalinating) The Blennie hasn't moved since last night. I'm going to buy a copper test today. Any suggestions?
 
bammbamm74

bammbamm74

Member
Ok, great. But if I change to a different copper treatment, how do I do it? Do I need to change my water out to take the other copper out? I'll do the search. I'll also raise my salt to normal then.
 
bammbamm74

bammbamm74

Member
Ok, my take is that coppersafe is junk. I'll try to get the other stuff. ALSO, should I move my Diamond Gobi to the quarenting tank, even though he's not showing signs? AND what about my Coral Banded Shrimp? Should I move him over too?
PH is 8.3
SG is 1.017
Nitrates are 0
Ammonia is 0
nitrites is 0
 
carrie

carrie

Member
Bammbamm-I was using copper to treat my ich about 6 mos ago. I have invertebrates so I had to put them into a separate tank. this copper treatment is very harsh on your fish and really stresses them out.
I currently am treating my tank using the hyposalinity treatment as highly recommended by those on this BB. Please review my post "2nd day of hyposalinity/flame died". There is some excellent information about hyposalinty I received from others.
I was VERY nervous trying this hyposalinity since my LFS have never heard of this and only suggested I treat with copper. So far the hyposalinity is working well and my fish are now comfortable and the main thing-they are NOT stressed.
Good luck!
 
bammbamm74

bammbamm74

Member
But, lets say I want to stay with copper, is that ok? Also, how do I get the copper out of my tank? The filter on there is a tiny filter (All I can afford right now) with a little tiny carbon bag. And how long do I hyposalinate for? 2 weeks after the visible signs are gone right?
 
carrie

carrie

Member
You have to decide what you are most comfortable with: copper or hyposalinity.
I believe the majority of people on this BB recommend the hyposalinity because copper does have a lasting affect on the fish, it does stress the fish out and sometimes copper will remain in your tank. The copper leaches onto your corals and your sustrate. (i'm quoting this from memory so I hope I said it accurately).
Another thing: last time I used copper in my tank to treat ich, after the copper treatment was finished, I put carbon in to remove the copper traces. 3 days later, I re-introduced my red crabs. They died with in 24hours. I don't know if I did not wait long enough for the carbon to continue pulling traces of copper or what exactly happened.
So-this time i'm trying hyposalinity ...
If you run a 'search' on hyposalinity you'll see numerous people who have asked questions on this subject.
I don't have an answer for you re: a tiny bag of carbon-is it sufficient to pull out any carbon you may have remaining in your tank (did you say you treated for copper before).
I know this doesn't answer all of your questions, but this is just my experience what happened to me. Hopefully you'll get more people to respond!
 
bammbamm74

bammbamm74

Member
No, the fish are in a quarentine tank. A 10 gallon tank. I bought it yesterday. I have inverts and ls and lr in my show tank, no way will I copper treat there. I'm going to try it for now, maybe do a freshwater dip. I'm buying a copper test today. Thanks for the info. I'll give it 2 days, if they don't eat or look worste, I'll try hypo. I just don't want to lose any more fish.
 
fish for life.

fish for life.

Member
I had similar problem, added a gamma and 3 lbs live rock and all of a sudden my kole tang got ich, he went quick. LFS said maybe syinide played a part. Got a cleaner wrasse to help?? Gamma went next, cleaner went 5 days later. I was pissed. I could not find NOICH which my LFS reccomended. I tried Rid Ich + as my last survivor the clown looked bad. The next day here I sit with no fish. Wish I had better feedback on NoIch and Rid Ich +.
 
fish for life.

fish for life.

Member
You are right on all accounts. I am going to set up a Q tank, maybe I will use my curent one. 20 gallon hex tank, but am trying to sell it first, it would make a good freshwater display.
I am new to salt, 3 months, but have had many fresh tanks and ponds. My mistake was using this small tank for my first salt tank, and then believing a lfs that a Kole Tang was appropriate for a 20 gallon tank!! After reading and hearing otherwise it was a stupid impulse purchase that turned into a crime. I am guilty. I hope this learning curve does not get steeper.
 
bammbamm74

bammbamm74

Member
Well, I won't do a fw dip. But I went and got a copper test from salifert and went home. My lawnmower blennie was dead. <img src="graemlins//dead.gif" border="0" alt="[dead]" /> BUT, my damsel and clown look much better and they ate some food. Mandarin looked the same. I tested the water
ph-8.3
nitrites-0
nitrates-0
ammonia-a little bit high, 10ppm maybe??(don't remember the readout, I put some ammonia remover in it.)
I tested the copper, none in there. The carbon filter took it out. I put some black pvc in there for hiding, but the powerhead I bought was tossing it around, so I turned that off. I then added a little bit more copper and took out the carbon. Now it's at 0.33. I know 0.25 is best, but I didn't have time to change the water, my wife will do that when she gets home and I'll test again.
Thanks for the input. I think I might have tackled this thing. What about the show tank? Just being with lr, ls an anemone and a shrimp, will ich go away? I'm adding more ls tonight.
 
bammbamm74

bammbamm74

Member
Lost my mandarin gobi this morning. My clown and damsel looked better last night but looked bad this morning. My diamond (sand sifting) looked bad too. So I checked the paramaters.
ph- 8.2
nitrites- 0
nitrates- 0
ammonia- >.25
So I did a 100% water change. Mainly because my wife put the carbon filter in and I have no clue on how much copper is in the tank. Well, after I did it, I checked parameters
ph- 7.8
ammonia- .25
I buffed the ph, but how do I get the ammonia down? I have amquel. Also, anyone know of a test kit for COPPERSAFE?
 
bammbamm74

bammbamm74

Member
I know I am. I feel so bad. Ok, maybe I should just age 10 gallons of saltwater with a salinity of 1.009 for 2 days and put it in there and start hyposalinity. Should I put a ls in there for the bio filter or just get some bio balls and stick them in the crappy filter. If I must, I can buy a better filter. I don't want to lose my clown. I can run a good filter with carbon for 24hours to get rid of the copper. That way the water in the tank will be "aged" and I can slowly add some ls and get some cured lr for the bio filter right?
 
gtc

gtc

Member
Holy Crap bammbamm! You are just better off giving the remainder of your fish back to your lfs or flushing them, it would be much easier on them. Then get a few good books and read them. What were you thinking putting a powder blue in a 25? Your main tank will need to be left fishless for at least 30 to 45 days to be safe for any new fish, the longer wothout fish the better chance you have of getting rid of any ich left in the tank. If in the future you act before reading up on this hobby and fail to use good quarantine practices your stay in this hobby will be short and miserable, guaranteed!
 
bammbamm74

bammbamm74

Member
Hey GTC RELAX!!! It wasn't me. It was my wife. I bought a book, and read it. There are some things it doesn't cover about disease or covers it different than this site, but I knew we couldn't have that fish in there. But it's not MY TANK. It's my wife's. She went out and bought the fish. I showed her the numerous warnings from many websites and our book. But, she didn't believe me and wouldn't take it back. Within one week, it had ich and we couldn't get rid of it and it died within a week of that. She left it in there for dead and it is now wiping out all the fish. I have since declared myself as the only one to work on it. I have had a hard time with treating this disease. But, today, I went home, installed the carbon filter into the filter and took some lr out of my show tank, broke it into pieces and put it into the filter so I can have a biological filter too. Help with an almost immediate cycle. I also am going to get the copper out by use of a poly bag. AND, I plan on getting ls and cured lr so that tank is ok and am going to hyposalinate the fish.
At lunch time, the fish looked good. Ammonia was ok, ph was a little low, sg was perfect. They even ate brine shrimp. I know that my main tank is to remain fishless for at least 3-4 weeks and plan on doing that, but remember, ich is always in the water and stressed fish can catch it.
 
bammbamm74

bammbamm74

Member
OH, and believe me, I make sure my wife knows why these fish are dying. (because of a bad decision about the tang) The funny thing is, the day before she bought the tang, she saw a tamato clown the same size. I said, NO WAY, it's WAY to big for our tank. But, she listened to the lfs person that the powder blue would be ok.
 
gtc

gtc

Member
Hyposalinity is the best treatment, but must be done properly. Your specific gravity must be at 1.009 no higher. Be sure your hydrometer is acurrate, most are not. Another critical thing is monitor the ph because freshwater has a much lower ph. By the way I am relaxed, my tank is fine. :p
 
bammbamm74

bammbamm74

Member
Thanks Anthem and GTC. I really appreciate the input. I know about the ammonia spike but that's why I'm going to use the lr from my main tank, and just replace it with lr from the fish store. Let that tank cycle it. I plan on putting ls in soon, but only about 2 inches, then slowly, over the course of about 2 weeks, add more lr. I've read a lot about the hyposalinity and am going to get my hydrometer calibrated tonight. I should lower the salt over the period of a week right?
 
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