wattsupdoc
Active Member
Wondering if Heni's are reef safe? I believe that they are, but want to be sure. Anybody have any that proved not to be? How about with clams and inverts etc.? Is a group of three a good group?
Heniochus Reef Safe?
- Thread starter wattsupdoc
- Start date
mx#28
Active Member
Scott Michael says in "Marine Fishes" that Heniochus diphreutes is reef safe but to not confuse it with Heniochus acuminatus, which he says is destructive in a reef tank. I know some other Heniochus species are coral nippers, too, but I'm not exatcly sure which ones are which.
Hope that helps a bit.
Hope that helps a bit.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
Yes it does help.
SWF does not show the scientific name for the Red Sea variety they sell. From what I see, that is Heniochus diphreutes. Is this correct? Or is it the non reef safe variety, just from a different local? Also, is that a poor specimen, or would you consider that a typical representation of Heniochus diphreutes? If thats what that fish is.
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/site_11...ot_parent_id=4
Or is it that they have the other Heni mislabeled?
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/site_11...ot_parent_id=4
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/site_11...ot_parent_id=4
Or is it that they have the other Heni mislabeled?
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/site_11...ot_parent_id=4
bessycerka
Member
The latter one on your post ate all of my zoos, some sites say they're reef safe, they are not, ask John the fish guy...........
wattsupdoc
Active Member
So which one is Heniochus diphreutes ? And which one is Heniochus acuminatus?
florida joe
Well-Known Member
The wimplefish (heniochus diphreutes ) and the long fin banner fish (acuminatus) differ in subtle physical characteristics. One is the wimplefish has a more angular anal fin on which the black and white bands meet at its apex the banner has a less rounded general appearance and a more pointed snout hope this helps
mx#28
Active Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
So which one is Heniochus diphreutes ? And which one is Heniochus acuminatus?
From the photos, I don't think either one is Heniochus diphreutes. What they have listed as "Heniochus - Red Sea" looks like Heniochus intermedius to me. They do have the Heniochus acuminatus and it looks like it is a correctly labeled photo. It's very frustrating when you want an exact species and it isn't scientifically identified.
So which one is Heniochus diphreutes ? And which one is Heniochus acuminatus?
From the photos, I don't think either one is Heniochus diphreutes. What they have listed as "Heniochus - Red Sea" looks like Heniochus intermedius to me. They do have the Heniochus acuminatus and it looks like it is a correctly labeled photo. It's very frustrating when you want an exact species and it isn't scientifically identified.
jonthefishguy
Active Member
This is one of those things that make every seller/buyer confused. Although one is reef safe and the other is not, both do eat the feet of anemone's if given a chance. The subtle differences as mentioned before are GENERALLY the way to tell however, many people in the business including the collector mislabel and we end up getting/selling the wrong item. I would like to point out that the second link seems to show the LONG BANNERFISH which in my understanding would be the DIPHREUTES which is said to be reef safe but....unless you actually have the fish infront of you, you are taking the chance that it is/isnt.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
Thanks, It is really frustrating. SWF really needs to work on theyre item descriptions. They have the resource here to probably come up with the most exact details and correct information with they're stock. But on many occasions I have found them to be somewhat frustrating, if not completely innacurate on some things. It's too bad too, because from the shipments I have gotten from them, they have what is probably the best stock I have found. Very good specimens, very healthy. Not trying to discredit SWF at all, but I would really like to see some better, more extensive, more accurate descriptions for their stock. With all the hobbyists here and the extensive knowledge/experience, surely they could do this. Really if there was a scientific name for each species, then there was a FOTW thread for that species, they could just point to that for the in depth details. I mean my compatability chart is not near in depth enough, but a good in depth discussion of each fish would be tremendous. Like say with the Heniochous Acuminatus. A member who has extensive knowledge in this fish would start a thread. Listing all the details known of the fish. Total lenght, diet, tank requirements, special needs, acceptable tank mates,( say like ....mostof these, all of these, some of these, none of those...do and donts etc. Everyhting that is known on it, as well as personal experience. Then we all jump in with our personal experiences with it. In the listing for the fish, SWF points to that thread. This way a person can make a very educated decision.
But as it appears they dont offer the fish I'm looking for, I'll have to look elsewhere.
But as it appears they dont offer the fish I'm looking for, I'll have to look elsewhere.
jonthefishguy
Active Member
Well, it is not as easy as it seems. I myself do what I can to place information on each species and size of tank recommended, compatibility charts are always vague and to some will never be accurate. And if we get it wrong, lets say a fish didnt get the memo about being reef safe, then we are crucified. Although you may understand that not all fish are reef safe even those that say they are, those that dont will blame us for it. But I do see your point and maybe they will go the extra mile. But putting personal experiences will just become a debate of true or false.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
I understand what they are up against. You see it time and time again, in various aspects of the hobby. I feel for my LFS guy that is reputable. Sometimes he'll give the best advise that can be had, just to get a bad rap for it.
Stupid fish have to have personalities and all.
But I don't think it's really all that complicated thing to do. And there's no reason why it has to turn into an argument, just posting our experience only. That way a person can make a better decision. Also they'll have a better understanding of the fish, and what risks they're taking. Thereby helping to eliminated some of the inaccuracies which lead to hobbyist frustrations and eventually quitting the hobby.
mx#28
Active Member
Originally Posted by jonthefishguy
I would like to point out that the second link seems to show the LONG BANNERFISH which in my understanding would be the DIPHREUTES
The second link is for the Longfin Bannerfish which is Heniochus acuminatus -not dephreutes. You can tell acuminatus and dephreutes apart the easiest by looking at the center black stripe. On the dephreutes, the srtipe doesnt go past the anal fin, but on the acuminatus you can see some black continue past the back of the fin. The SWF photo clearly shows the black band past the anal fin.
I agree with everything being said here. It is really frustrating to not have confidence in what specimen is being offered and which one might actually show up. Getting similar looking species eg - camel shrimp instead of peppermints - can be a critical issue.
I also think that SWF has extremely healthy livestock, but have been disappointed with information provided about care level, etc. In some cases, I think it is just incomplete but, in other cases, I think it's even innacurate.
wattsupdoc, I hope your able to find the dephreutes. I love seeing schools of these fish in aquariums.
I would like to point out that the second link seems to show the LONG BANNERFISH which in my understanding would be the DIPHREUTES
The second link is for the Longfin Bannerfish which is Heniochus acuminatus -not dephreutes. You can tell acuminatus and dephreutes apart the easiest by looking at the center black stripe. On the dephreutes, the srtipe doesnt go past the anal fin, but on the acuminatus you can see some black continue past the back of the fin. The SWF photo clearly shows the black band past the anal fin.
I agree with everything being said here. It is really frustrating to not have confidence in what specimen is being offered and which one might actually show up. Getting similar looking species eg - camel shrimp instead of peppermints - can be a critical issue.
I also think that SWF has extremely healthy livestock, but have been disappointed with information provided about care level, etc. In some cases, I think it is just incomplete but, in other cases, I think it's even innacurate.
wattsupdoc, I hope your able to find the dephreutes. I love seeing schools of these fish in aquariums.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
I just want to be sure I understand right. This fish's anatomy is kinda strange. It's pectoral, pelvic and anal fins are all crammed into each other. With the anal fin resembling more of its body than a fin. I believe the part with the red arrow pointing to it is the anal fin. But not sure, 100%. So the Black stripe that the arrow is pointing at is also the stripe you are reffering to.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
I suppose that would be the other black stripe then. I see the difference.
jonthefishguy
Active Member
Like I said in a previos post. This is one of those dilemas that we retailers have a hard time figuring out. We have seen both kinds become unreef safe and pick at anemone base as well so we just assume to label them not reef safe and be done with it.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
Yes, and that in itself can be problematic also. Whereas a compilation of hobbyist experiences can give the hobbyist an idea as far as how reef safe it might or might not be. Of course theres the dielima of the hobbyist not exactly knowing which species they actually have.
But if in these situations, a good description of how to detyermine with good photos would allow them to ID their fish and than make an appropriate post.
mcbdz
Active Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
I just want to be sure I understand right. This fish's anatomy is kinda strange. It's pectoral, pelvic and anal fins are all crammed into each other. With the anal fin resembling more of its body than a fin. I believe the part with the red arrow pointing to it is the anal fin. But not sure, 100%. So the Black stripe that the arrow is pointing at is also the stripe you are reffering to.
Now in the Marine fishes by Scott w. Micheal He list this fish as the Heniochus dipreutes Which is the schooling banner stating,-The schooling bannerfish has a more-rounded
[hr]
, less-protruding snout, and the middle black band ends at the corner of the anal fine. Showing this pic of the fish. They are very hard to tell apart with out the pics being side by side.
I just want to be sure I understand right. This fish's anatomy is kinda strange. It's pectoral, pelvic and anal fins are all crammed into each other. With the anal fin resembling more of its body than a fin. I believe the part with the red arrow pointing to it is the anal fin. But not sure, 100%. So the Black stripe that the arrow is pointing at is also the stripe you are reffering to.
Now in the Marine fishes by Scott w. Micheal He list this fish as the Heniochus dipreutes Which is the schooling banner stating,-The schooling bannerfish has a more-rounded
[hr]
, less-protruding snout, and the middle black band ends at the corner of the anal fine. Showing this pic of the fish. They are very hard to tell apart with out the pics being side by side.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
And....