House Health Care Debacle-WARNING POLITICAL CONTENT

cranberry

Active Member
We certainly can have it both ways.... because there is more than one "health insurance" here. I have great insurance. Healthcare is easy for me to obtain. IronEagle does not have great insurance, hence it is difficult for him to obtain medical care. I'm not saying the US system isn't flawed... it is. It's seriously flawed. But to choose another flawed system as a model? Not too smart.
Cash talks. It is easy to get care if you have the money. They gave my Uncle the BEST treatment with his 100 grand.
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3171442
I used to live in Missoula Montana. It's kind of the medical hub for podunct. We had plenty of Canadians come to town for treatment because their system sucked. So who you going to believe, your lying eyes or a government website that claims short wait times for their system

Wait a minute - we can't have it both ways. Either medical care is hard to access in the US under the US system (Ironeagle), or there is so much slack in the system that foreign nationals can come here in vast numbers and receive immediate care (Reefraff). In fact (here I go with those darned statistics again) the upper midwest has some of the best access figures in the US.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3171428
LOL... exactly why I can't debate with political mindsets. You guys are wired differently. I can tell you personally the experiences I've had being a Canadian... if you want to argue that with things you read in your statistical papers... go ahead. But I'm not a Canadian living in Canada trying to agrue the differences that exist in the states. I've experienced both. I prefer the way it is in the US now compared to the way it is in Canada. If you want to believe people love their health care in Canada... *shrugs*.
If we could just pick up the whole process as it is in Canada right now and plunked it down in the US right now.... I'm telling you, you guys would have a cow.
Raise your hands. Who has been admitted to a hospital in Canada?
I think you'll find that leftist, won't let facts stand in the way of their crazy ideas. It doesn't matter if a system is basically bankrupt, Medicare, they'll double down, or if a socialized system like Canada, GB, or take your pick is a disaster, and basic healthcare is being rationed. They'll just say, naw that isn't the norm. Or that you were forced to leave leave Canada and come to the USA. (and I can find thousands of other similar stories)
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3171471
I think you'll find that leftist, won't let facts stand in the way of their crazy ideas. It doesn't matter if a system is basically bankrupt, Medicare, they'll double down, or if a socialized system like Canada, GB, or take your pick is a disaster, and basic healthcare is being rationed. They'll just say, naw that isn't the norm. Or that you were forced to leave leave Canada and come to the USA. (and I can find thousands of other similar stories)
It seems to me that I am the one who is using facts, while you resort to ad hominem
arguments. The "basically bankrupt" Medicare is still paying its bills, so I guess it isn't yet bankrupt (just a fact. You know how "leftists" love facts!).
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3171522
It seems to me that I am the one who is using facts, while you resort to ad hominem
arguments. The "basically bankrupt" Medicare is still paying its bills, so I guess it isn't yet bankrupt (just a fact. You know how "leftists" love facts!).
In my book anything that isn't self sufficient is bankrupt. Our government may be paying their bills. But printing money, and issuing t-bills doesn't mean it is paying their bills. Hence it is very fair to say our government is basically bankrupt too. Any company in that same position (that did have to follow the rules, not rewrite them so it could survive) would have been liquidated long ago. But hey sweep the problems under the rug.
 

ironeagle2006

Active Member
Put it to you this way Geridoc. I am on a waiting list for Surgery to repair an injury that happened during a siezure. I have 5 more months to go BEFORE I EVEN SEE THE FREAKING DOCTOR for the first time. I hope like HELL MY Scapula can handle not having that 3 cm piece on the bottom of it there. Called I tried to pick up my 150 fish tank using only my backside of my right shoulder, 1800 lbs does not move to well.
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3171526
In my book anything that isn't self sufficient is bankrupt. Our government may be paying their bills. But printing money, and issuing t-bills doesn't mean it is paying their bills. Hence it is very fair to say our government is basically bankrupt too. Any company in that same position (that did have to follow the rules, not rewrite them so it could survive) would have been liquidated long ago. But hey sweep the problems under the rug.
I assume you include yourself in that "bankrupt" category since you aren't self sufficient either[/irony]. A government isn't a company, and pretending it is one is a common misconception.
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/3171529
Put it to you this way Geridoc. I am on a waiting list for Surgery to repair an injury that happened during a siezure. I have 5 more months to go BEFORE I EVEN SEE THE FREAKING DOCTOR for the first time. I hope like HELL MY Scapula can handle not having that 3 cm piece on the bottom of it there. Called I tried to pick up my 150 fish tank using only my backside of my right shoulder, 1800 lbs does not move to well.
First, I'm sorry to hear about your injury. Are you in Canada? Your address line says IL (Illinois). If you are in Illinois, what is your point? That in America people who don't have lots of money have to defer and delay health care? I think I said that already. That waiting for health care isn't uniquely a Canadian problem? Or that the current way we pay for and allocate medical care sucks? Aha...I'm glad you finally see it my way.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3171613
First, I'm sorry to hear about your injury. Are you in Canada? Your address line says IL (Illinois). If you are in Illinois, what is your point? That in America people who don't have lots of money have to defer and delay health care? I think I said that already. That waiting for health care isn't uniquely a Canadian problem? Or that the current way we pay for and allocate medical care sucks? Aha...I'm glad you finally see it my way.
He is on government health care, that is the reason he has a hard time getting in to see a doc. I have to had my blood tested every month because of blood thinners. Even though the workers comp insurance is on the hook for the injury related issue I had a hell of a time finding a doc that would take me because my insurance is Medicare.
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3171620
He is on government health care, that is the reason he has a hard time getting in to see a doc. I have to had my blood tested every month because of blood thinners. Even though the workers comp insurance is on the hook for the injury related issue I had a hell of a time finding a doc that would take me because my insurance is Medicare.
So you agree with me too that the current system sucks.
 
S

shrimpy brains

Guest
Ok, I'll throw my hat in the ring!! Yes, the Us system is flawed for those who cannot afford good insurance or have no money. For people like Cranberry who can afford these things, healthcare in this country is fantastic.
For those who cannot afford these things, there is medicare/medicaid. If you are on this program, good luck getting good healthcare. they no longer cover any psychiatric appointments or medicines. If they ever covered dental, they don't any longer.(at least not in GA) My sister has incredibly bad TMJ. This should be a medical issue, but the specialist she has to go to, is considered dental, and is not covered. Medications she needs, if they are covered, have a steep co pay, or are covered for a limited amount of time, or a limited dose. (ie. one medication she needs 2 a day, but they will only cover 30 a month.) Also, she went to the gyno about 6 years ago. They decided she had severe endometriosis(sp), many cysts etc. and definitely needed a full hysterectomy. Then found out she was on medicare, and decided to give her birth control instead. (to regulate her periods) Why, cause the doctor had already filled his medicare "quota" , and would not receive enough mone to do this procedure.
I could go on at length, but suffice to say, the current medicare/ medicaid program is not working.
If you ask me,(I know you didn't, but I'm gonna say it anyway) we need to reform these systems. Make them work, so that the people on them can get the healthcare they need. Expand it to cover those in limited income, and those with pre-existing conditions.(who can't get coverage) Not those who can afford or are happy with their insurance.
Next, offer grants and incentives to doctors and hospitals who help people without coverage, by reducing fees, or offering free services. (Why not, we give grants to artist who can't fund themselves, I know a lady who gets $60,000 grant annually to do her art work
all she has to do is one exhibit a year and since no one else applies, she is bringing in more than I do.) May be we could take a look at wasted money in this govn. and put that money into grants to help hospitals with the expensive equipment, so they don't have too charge so much.
The last thing, I suggest, is putting a cap on insurance company premiums. Other than that, the government should leave healthcare alone. JMO, and I actually have a lot more ideas, but I let you rip these apart. (as I know some will)
 
S

shrimpy brains

Guest
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3171666
So you agree with me too that the current system sucks.
The current system sucks for those on govn funded healthcare. The proposed healthcare ammendment only offers to expand this healthcare to all of us. Thus, it does not fix the problem!
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3171666
So you agree with me too that the current system sucks.
The current system is fine unless you are unfortunate enough to be on a government plan. It needs tweaking, not replacement.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by Shrimpy Brains
http:///forum/post/3171683
Next, offer grants and incentives to doctors and hospitals who help people without coverage, by reducing fees, or offering free services. (Why not, we give grants to artist who can't fund themselves
Why should they when there are already laws on the books mandating we give care without paying us a cent?
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan...me-erdoctors28
Then now, if I see a patient outside their HMO network I cannot bill the patient for their balance of the bill?
God forbid you only pay your lawyer half.
http://www.pillsburylaw.com/index.cf...4&itemid=39321
 

cranberry

Active Member
Maybe to get the pay you are owed you can go on strike like they did a few years back in Canada. All the docs (in some provinces) went on strike. Emergency services only were open....
 

ironeagle2006

Active Member
Try being my wife right now has a freaking CYST in her back that is putting pressure on her spine. Again her company does not offer Health Insurance that is affordable for Familes. If we bought just Castastophic coverage that is worthless even according to her UNION REPS it is 300 per month. The Cadililac plan is 600 a month for Familes those are HER COSTS not including the Co-pays and deductibles and other costs. She only makes 15K a year as a CNA we can not afford to pay 50% or 25% of our GROSS PAY for health care INSURANCE that one is excellant yet would cause us to loose our house the other we WOULD DEFINALTY LOOSE OUR HOME.
So she is also in the waiting game for seeing a specialist to get that removed. We are lucky there is a very good Surgeon that cares more for his Patients than his WALLET he is going to see her after the holidays are over that is soonest he can get her in why so many people on Medicare trying to get that Yearly Colonoscopy done before the end of the YEAR.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/3171907
Try being my wife right now has a freaking CYST in her back that is putting pressure on her spine. Again her company does not offer Health Insurance that is affordable for Familes. If we bought just Castastophic coverage that is worthless even according to her UNION REPS it is 300 per month. The Cadililac plan is 600 a month for Familes those are HER COSTS not including the Co-pays and deductibles and other costs. She only makes 15K a year as a CNA we can not afford to pay 50% or 25% of our GROSS PAY for health care INSURANCE that one is excellant yet would cause us to loose our house the other we WOULD DEFINALTY LOOSE OUR HOME.
So she is also in the waiting game for seeing a specialist to get that removed. We are lucky there is a very good Surgeon that cares more for his Patients than his WALLET he is going to see her after the holidays are over that is soonest he can get her in why so many people on Medicare trying to get that Yearly Colonoscopy done before the end of the YEAR.
Your wife is in a unionized job that doesn't provide health insurance? That's rare
 

cranberry

Active Member
Dang, I can't listen... everyone is asleep still.
Question: Do you think the mentality of the "Sue Happy Americian" is going to change? The system in Canada doesn't receive too many actual complaints, Canadians grew up with the health care the way it is now, they usually express appreciation for the care they receive, no matter how inadequate. Americans act like they are owed something.... the best. And when that best isn't delivered... lawsuit. I'm sure the statistical minds can find a comparison of lawsuits in Canada verses US and the outcomes of both groups. Soon, when you sue the hospital, you'll be suing the government.... good luck with that. They don't have the "Lawsuit Drain" in Canada.... how is that going to fit into the equation down here?
 
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