How do Agressive fish distinquish between feeder fish and potential tank mates?

[jabari]

This is something that i have observed recently. I thought maybe it was based on size, but this obviously aint it. I recently got a big wrasse to add with my small humma humma and clown fish. I wanted to see how the wrasse woud go for some feeder fish so i put some small gold fish in there and noticed that the trigger went right for them as well as the wrasse. Now the small gold fish were bigger than all my damsels and one was even bigger than my GS clown. So my question is how do aggressive fish know that "feeder fish" are food and not just tank mates for them to chase or live with. They won't chase them away or show their dominance like they would a tank mate they immediately try to inflict damage,kill, and eat the feeder fish. It can't be an innate thing because freshwater goldfish are not native to their saltwater oceans...how do they distinguish between the two?

 

[adee]

im not sure but as far as ive been told.. you shouldnt be feeding freshwater anything (fish) to your saltwater tank..

 

[jabari]

Yeah..yeah, i know it can potentially introduce disease into ur tank....its not something i do all the time,though

 

[small triggers]

they dont really distinguish between your meaning of feeder fish and tank mates. You are adding new fish directly infront of them, not acclimating, turning off lights. If you just threw in some damsels, they would probably go for those too. And if they havent been trying to eat the damsels, and you keep feeding 'feeders' they very well may start. And why would you want to feed freshwater fish to your saltwater inhabitants? no nutritional value in it,,,,

 

[jackri]

Take a damsels out for awhile and reintroduce them later but just dumping them in and see what happens (probably same as goldfish)
You have established tank mates that are aware of each other and are "comfortable" for the most part where as you introduce something scared crapless that everyone in the tank knows is meat. Kinda like a new person in school... everyone picks on the new guy until he gets established. That's my reasoning anyways

 

[srfisher17]

In time, as the trigger grows, he will eventually eat any smaller fish he can,tankmate or not, IMO & IME. Triggers don't stay cute, little guys forever. BTW, disease is not the main reason for not feeding SW feeders. If you introduce a fish, knowing or thinking, it can cause disease---none of your fish will last long.

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2996727
In time, as the trigger grows, he will eventually eat any smaller fish he can,tankmate or not, IMO & IME. Triggers don't stay cute, little guys forever. BTW, disease is not the main reason for not feeding SW feeders. If you introduce a fish, knowing or thinking, it can cause disease---none of your fish will last long.
Agreed. I had a Lunare wrasse and Lei Trigger both eat chromis for lunch, after being tankmates for months

Though to directly your question, it's pretty easy, they look like food. Why aren't sliversides or lancefish kept? Goldfish to predator fish, are like catnip to cats or crack to some people, irresistable. Why do you think goldfish don't exist in the wild? It's programmed into every predator that goldfish are food.

 

[jackri]

I wasn't implying the chromis would be safe -- but more my reasoning why a new anything dropped in gets picked on.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2996753
Agreed. I had a Lunare wrasse and Lei Trigger both eat chromis for lunch, after being tankmates for months

Though to directly your question, it's pretty easy, they look like food. Why aren't sliversides or lancefish kept? Goldfish to predator fish, are like catnip to cats or crack to some people, irresistable. Why do you think goldfish don't exist in the wild? It's programmed into every predator that goldfish are food.
Also, there are a lot of hobbiests, and I'm starting to agree, that feeding live feeders to triggers (and similar predators) encourages and/or speeds up their aggressive nature. You cannot re-program a fish's genes; triggers are aggressive predators and always will be. Its just a matter of when that behavior starts.

 

[rcreations]

There are triggers who are not so agressive though. My sargassum for example and my friend has had a crosshatch for close to 20 years and that fish never hurt anything and he's got some small chromis in the tank.

 

[jabari]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2996727
In time, as the trigger grows, he will eventually eat any smaller fish he can,tankmate or not, IMO & IME. Triggers don't stay cute, little guys forever. BTW, disease is not the main reason for not feeding SW feeders. If you introduce a fish, knowing or thinking, it can cause disease---none of your fish will last long.
I have had both freshwater/saltwater aggressive fish for years and like i already stated on ocasion i have fed them live fish..just to see how they went after them...i have seen many people in established lfs do the same thing...some of yall on here are so anal...i just wanted a simple question answered...lol....i think one of u actually came close, but they don't actually chase it because its a new fish...at least i don't think..because the wrasse actually bit one in half, head first......how bout feeding crayfish to my triggers?

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2996772
Also, there are a lot of hobbiests, and I'm starting to agree, that feeding live feeders to triggers (and similar predators) encourages and/or speeds up their aggressive nature. You cannot re-program a fish's genes; triggers are aggressive predators and always will be. Its just a matter of when that behavior starts.
Yea, there's definitely some research that needs to go into this subject. I am on the fence, I had different results with my goldbar wrasse. He had 'better' more vibrant colors and was signifcantly calmer after he got to 'hunt' a crawfish. Perhaps triggers are a different story, or it was just this one fish, there's always an exception, type-deal.
Originally Posted by RCreations
http:///forum/post/2996779
There are triggers who are not so agressive though. My sargassum for example and my friend has had a crosshatch for close to 20 years and that fish never hurt anything and he's got some small chromis in the tank.
Of course.

When talking about 'aggressive fish,' Xanthichthys triggers, really should be omitted.
Originally Posted by Jabari
http:///forum/post/2996782
I have had both freshwater/saltwater aggressive fish for years and like i already stated on ocasion i have fed them live fish..just to see how they went after them...i have seen many people in established lfs do the same thing...some of yall on here are so anal...i just wanted a simple question answered...lol....i think one of u actually came close, but they don't actually chase it because its a new fish...at least i don't think..because the wrasse actually bit one in half, head first......how bout feeding crayfish to my triggers?
Crawfish are slightly better. Nutritionally they are better then FW fish, just cause they are, really, void of any nutrients for the fish. Sort of like you eating a rice cake. The main reason for not feeding FW fish to saltwater fish, is not disease, virutal no dieases from FW affect saltwater fish. However FW fish are comprised of lots of saturated fats, which coupled with prolonged feeding to marine fish, can result in a number of problems, mainly fatty liver disease, which actually isn't a disease, but a condition.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by Jabari
http:///forum/post/2996782
I have had both freshwater/saltwater aggressive fish for years and like i already stated on ocasion i have fed them live fish..just to see how they went after them...i have seen many people in established lfs do the same thing...some of yall on here are so anal...i just wanted a simple question answered...lol....i think one of u actually came close, but they don't actually chase it because its a new fish...at least i don't think..because the wrasse actually bit one in half, head first......how bout feeding crayfish to my triggers?
Your 2nd post made it obvious that you didn't know why FW feeders were bad for your fish. If, by someone suggesting that you don't do something without knowing the outcome is being "anal"; I'll gladly assume the label. As far as crayfish: they are very fatty. A steady diet of fatty foods can cause fatty build-ups and fatty liver disease in SW fish. SW shrimp, scallops, crab, clam, etc, is much better.

 

[jabari]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2996849
Your 2nd post made it obvious that you didn't know why FW feeders were bad for your fish. If, by someone suggesting that you don't do something without knowing the outcome is being "anal"; I'll gladly assume the label. As far as crayfish: they are very fatty. A steady diet of fatty foods can cause fatty build-ups and fatty liver disease in SW fish. SW shrimp, scallops, crab, clam, etc, is much better.
Yeah, ur right man...thanks for informing me. I don't know too much about the fish ailments and conditions...no hard feelings

 

[thebrohem]

On a side note, i'm not saying that you should feed aggressive fish, fresh or salt, feeder fish, but it is good to feed a variety of different foods to your fish. A staple food of whatever you like, like pellets or whatever, and some other foods is good simply for variety. Say krill, earthworms, silversides, ect. I dont know, once every other week as a treet, a live feeder isnt bad, but again, it is in moderation. Also, if we want to rank feeders, goldfish are usually the worst. On average, though smaller, live minnows are better. Live guppies are also better than goldfish, and ironically enough, if a guppy doesnt get eaten right away, they can usually survive in saltwater. Like i said, i wouldnt feed live on a regular basis, but it is a good treat on occasion and such. Just my opinion.