How do you raise pH?
- Thread starter zako
- Start date
scsinet
Active Member
As a point of clarification... you do not raise pH, you build alkalinity. Once your alkalinity (and to a lesser but significant degree calcium and, rarely, Co2) is where it should be, pH will also be right where it should be.
Do you have alkalinity readings on your water? That's what you should be looking at before pH.
Do you have alkalinity readings on your water? That's what you should be looking at before pH.
zako
Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3173352
Do you have alkalinity readings on your water? That's what you should be looking at before pH.
No :/ just the pH, since my water is more acidic how would i go about getting my pH where it should be.
http:///forum/post/3173352
Do you have alkalinity readings on your water? That's what you should be looking at before pH.
No :/ just the pH, since my water is more acidic how would i go about getting my pH where it should be.
J
jstdv8
Guest
Zako,
I learned the hard way not to use buffers. They are at best a temporoary PH fix, but they jacked my alk way up and now I have low PH again and high alk because of it.
You need to find out what yuor alk is at so you knwo what you can do to correct it. if your Ph and alk are low then you might use limewater, of the alk is high and Ph is low then you need to find an alternative
I learned the hard way not to use buffers. They are at best a temporoary PH fix, but they jacked my alk way up and now I have low PH again and high alk because of it.
You need to find out what yuor alk is at so you knwo what you can do to correct it. if your Ph and alk are low then you might use limewater, of the alk is high and Ph is low then you need to find an alternative
scsinet
Active Member
I guess what I meant was that it's not that baking soda won't do the trick, but alkalinity is the reading you should be paying attention to, not pH.
pH is a result of other facets of your water chemistry.
Adding baking soda will raise your pH, by building alkalinity. However, you should be adding it to get your alk where it should be. Once you have your alk in line, you'll do a pH test and find it's right where it should be.
Whatever you do, do NOT do anything drastic. Adding baking soda can have a very dramatic effect on pH, and usually pH/alk problems only affect the livestock when it is a very major issue, with 7.7 is not. Go very slowly and test frequently.
... but test alk first.
pH is a result of other facets of your water chemistry.
Adding baking soda will raise your pH, by building alkalinity. However, you should be adding it to get your alk where it should be. Once you have your alk in line, you'll do a pH test and find it's right where it should be.
Whatever you do, do NOT do anything drastic. Adding baking soda can have a very dramatic effect on pH, and usually pH/alk problems only affect the livestock when it is a very major issue, with 7.7 is not. Go very slowly and test frequently.
... but test alk first.
scsinet
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3173363
Zako,
I learned the hard way not to use buffers. They are at best a temporoary PH fix, but they jacked my alk way up and now I have low PH again and high alk because of it.
That doesn't sound right. Are you sure you don't mean add bases? Buffers like cabonates should build your alk, and by virtue of this, raise pH. If you alk is high and pH is low then your calcium values are out of whack.
http:///forum/post/3173363
Zako,
I learned the hard way not to use buffers. They are at best a temporoary PH fix, but they jacked my alk way up and now I have low PH again and high alk because of it.
That doesn't sound right. Are you sure you don't mean add bases? Buffers like cabonates should build your alk, and by virtue of this, raise pH. If you alk is high and pH is low then your calcium values are out of whack.
geoj
Active Member
Alkalinity is the total carbonate hardness. Or a reading of KH or dKH (degrees carbonate hardness). This is many different minerals that are alkaline. This does not tell you how acidic or alkaline water is because it does not take into account the acidic things that neutralize the alkaline minerals. PH does tell you how acidic or alkaline the water is, but does not let you know why it is acidic or alkaline.
When we use the term pH we are talking about the amount of hydrogen ions, or whether it is acidic, neutral, or basic, from 0-14. Acidic is less than 7, Basic is more than 7. Older book will say alkaline instead of basic and this is how things get confusing.
The term Alkalinity is used to mean different things depending on how it is defined (It can mean basic or carbonate hardness). When we use Alk we mean the total amount of carbonate hardness. Carbonate hardness is an old term and I should say something like “The buffering substances like Carbonate, Bicarbonate, borate, hydroxide, silicate, and phosphate.” But who has the time for all that. These minerals resist the change in pH. This is why we commonly call them buffers. The proportions and amounts of these minerals affect the pH. In simple terms if you don’t have enough alkaline minerals in the correct proportions meaning the Alk is low, the pH will be low. This does not mean the pH will be where you want it to be because there are acids that also affect pH. Mainly carbonic acid (waste decomposition) and CO2 (respiration).
This is why SCSInet wants to know your Alk or KH
and if you knew the Calcium and Phosphate some of us could make a guess as why you’re at 7.7 ph
When we use the term pH we are talking about the amount of hydrogen ions, or whether it is acidic, neutral, or basic, from 0-14. Acidic is less than 7, Basic is more than 7. Older book will say alkaline instead of basic and this is how things get confusing.
The term Alkalinity is used to mean different things depending on how it is defined (It can mean basic or carbonate hardness). When we use Alk we mean the total amount of carbonate hardness. Carbonate hardness is an old term and I should say something like “The buffering substances like Carbonate, Bicarbonate, borate, hydroxide, silicate, and phosphate.” But who has the time for all that. These minerals resist the change in pH. This is why we commonly call them buffers. The proportions and amounts of these minerals affect the pH. In simple terms if you don’t have enough alkaline minerals in the correct proportions meaning the Alk is low, the pH will be low. This does not mean the pH will be where you want it to be because there are acids that also affect pH. Mainly carbonic acid (waste decomposition) and CO2 (respiration).
This is why SCSInet wants to know your Alk or KH
and if you knew the Calcium and Phosphate some of us could make a guess as why you’re at 7.7 ph
J
jstdv8
Guest
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3173369
That doesn't sound right. Are you sure you don't mean add bases? Buffers like cabonates should build your alk, and by virtue of this, raise pH. If you alk is high and pH is low then your calcium values are out of whack.
I had low PH so I added buffers as recommended by the label.
I checked my Alk after my PH was at a solid 8.3 due to the buffers and I have high alkalinity.
I guess my system could be flawed as I only tested my alk once right as my tank was starting to cycle. before that and it was reading perfect. after that I did 7 water changes, once per day as reccomended by a few users here.
Found my PH was low so I started adding buffers for the last two water changes which temporaily fixed my PH problem. Then i checked my alk and found it to be at the very top of my alk test chart. im assuming that the buffers were the problem but I could be wrong
http:///forum/post/3173369
That doesn't sound right. Are you sure you don't mean add bases? Buffers like cabonates should build your alk, and by virtue of this, raise pH. If you alk is high and pH is low then your calcium values are out of whack.
I had low PH so I added buffers as recommended by the label.
I checked my Alk after my PH was at a solid 8.3 due to the buffers and I have high alkalinity.
I guess my system could be flawed as I only tested my alk once right as my tank was starting to cycle. before that and it was reading perfect. after that I did 7 water changes, once per day as reccomended by a few users here.
Found my PH was low so I started adding buffers for the last two water changes which temporaily fixed my PH problem. Then i checked my alk and found it to be at the very top of my alk test chart. im assuming that the buffers were the problem but I could be wrong
posiden
Active Member
Geo touched on CO2 resperation. It too could be why the PH is low. Gas exchange of your aquarium is very important. This is where the inch of fish per gallon gives in to, the number of fish that can be kept in an aquarium is determined by the surface area.
CO2 is something to think about on your PH issue. A build up of CO2 in the home will result in not enough O2 in the aquarium making the enviroment more acidic due to the carbonic acid caused by having an excess of CO2 in your tank. Good surface movement, protien skimmers, or a simple air stone will help in keeping the water oxygenated. That is providing that the air in your home doesn't have a build up of CO2.
CO2 is something to think about on your PH issue. A build up of CO2 in the home will result in not enough O2 in the aquarium making the enviroment more acidic due to the carbonic acid caused by having an excess of CO2 in your tank. Good surface movement, protien skimmers, or a simple air stone will help in keeping the water oxygenated. That is providing that the air in your home doesn't have a build up of CO2.
J
jstdv8
Guest
Zako,
Check the PH of your water before you put it in the tank. If its higher than your current PH then it should raise it by the percentage of water you changed out. So if yuo did a 10% water change and all your parameters are perfect on your new water than things should get 10% better.
Check the PH of your water before you put it in the tank. If its higher than your current PH then it should raise it by the percentage of water you changed out. So if yuo did a 10% water change and all your parameters are perfect on your new water than things should get 10% better.
raymond2688
Member
i had the same problem. i was only testing for ph and using buffers to fix it, then the more research i did the more i found ph is a small problem compared to my DKH being 16 and was very confused i could not add buffers to raise the ph because my carbonate hardness was so high. i then decided to stop using buffers and when i did that along with more frequent water changes my carbonate hardnes dropped to 9 almost ideal. now my ph is still off but everyone is happy and i am thinking my regular rutine will fix it.
scsinet
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3173555
Zako,
Check the PH of your water before you put it in the tank.
Be careful here. Testing new seawater before a water change is one thing, but testing RO water will always yield strange results because the water has no alkalinity. I've watched RO water swing 3 points in pH just from carrying it up the stairs in a bucket.
Originally Posted by raymond2688
http:///forum/post/3173595
i had the same problem. i was only testing for ph and using buffers to fix it, then the more research i did the more i found ph is a small problem compared to my DKH being 16 and was very confused i could not add buffers to raise the ph because my carbonate hardness was so high. i then decided to stop using buffers and when i did that along with more frequent water changes my carbonate hardnes dropped to 9 almost ideal. now my ph is still off but everyone is happy and i am thinking my regular rutine will fix it.
The single best thing you can do to maintain pH and alkalinity is doing regular water changes; you hit it right on the head.
http:///forum/post/3173555
Zako,
Check the PH of your water before you put it in the tank.
Be careful here. Testing new seawater before a water change is one thing, but testing RO water will always yield strange results because the water has no alkalinity. I've watched RO water swing 3 points in pH just from carrying it up the stairs in a bucket.
Originally Posted by raymond2688
http:///forum/post/3173595
i had the same problem. i was only testing for ph and using buffers to fix it, then the more research i did the more i found ph is a small problem compared to my DKH being 16 and was very confused i could not add buffers to raise the ph because my carbonate hardness was so high. i then decided to stop using buffers and when i did that along with more frequent water changes my carbonate hardnes dropped to 9 almost ideal. now my ph is still off but everyone is happy and i am thinking my regular rutine will fix it.
The single best thing you can do to maintain pH and alkalinity is doing regular water changes; you hit it right on the head.
ophiura
Active Member
YOu have to understand there are several reasons the pH can be low...and it may have nothing to do with additives to put in. Blindly adding stuff can cause problems. At a minimum you need an alkalinity test.
Do you have glass tops on the tank?
WHat surface aggitation do you have?
When did you take this reading? First thing in the morning or after the lights had been on all day? pH will change during the day. It is not a simple topic.
I strongly encourage you to listen to this advice and get an alkalinity test before adding anything to the tank.
Do you have glass tops on the tank?
WHat surface aggitation do you have?
When did you take this reading? First thing in the morning or after the lights had been on all day? pH will change during the day. It is not a simple topic.
I strongly encourage you to listen to this advice and get an alkalinity test before adding anything to the tank.
zako
Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/3173625
YOu have to understand there are several reasons the pH can be low...and it may have nothing to do with additives to put in. Blindly adding stuff can cause problems. At a minimum you need an alkalinity test.
Do you have glass tops on the tank?
WHat surface aggitation do you have?
When did you take this reading? First thing in the morning or after the lights had been on all day? pH will change during the day. It is not a simple topic.
I strongly encourage you to listen to this advice and get an alkalinity test before adding anything to the tank.
Is Alkalinity and KH the same thing? sorry for the newb question :/ My KH is 13. I have no glass ceiling on my tank! no top at all or any lights. I checked my pH at about 3:30 in the afternoon.
http:///forum/post/3173625
YOu have to understand there are several reasons the pH can be low...and it may have nothing to do with additives to put in. Blindly adding stuff can cause problems. At a minimum you need an alkalinity test.
Do you have glass tops on the tank?
WHat surface aggitation do you have?
When did you take this reading? First thing in the morning or after the lights had been on all day? pH will change during the day. It is not a simple topic.
I strongly encourage you to listen to this advice and get an alkalinity test before adding anything to the tank.
Is Alkalinity and KH the same thing? sorry for the newb question :/ My KH is 13. I have no glass ceiling on my tank! no top at all or any lights. I checked my pH at about 3:30 in the afternoon.
nemo22
Member
First, check alkalinity, check calcium.
Higher alk. Affords greater ability to prevent rapid ph swings. Once the alk. is exhausted, the ph can fall rapidily. Removal of co2 by photosynthesis results in less formation of carbonic acid, and therefore raises the ph. Retention of excess co2 in the water because of poor circulation or admininstration of co2 by means of dosing system, causes the ph to decease. As the co2 equilibrates with the atmosphere, the ph naturally returns to about 8.2 if the carbonate/bicardonate buffer system is not depleted.
Higher alk. Affords greater ability to prevent rapid ph swings. Once the alk. is exhausted, the ph can fall rapidily. Removal of co2 by photosynthesis results in less formation of carbonic acid, and therefore raises the ph. Retention of excess co2 in the water because of poor circulation or admininstration of co2 by means of dosing system, causes the ph to decease. As the co2 equilibrates with the atmosphere, the ph naturally returns to about 8.2 if the carbonate/bicardonate buffer system is not depleted.
reefkprz
Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/3173625
YOu have to understand there are several reasons the pH can be low...and it may have nothing to do with additives to put in. Blindly adding stuff can cause problems. At a minimum you need an alkalinity test.
Do you have glass tops on the tank?
WHat surface aggitation do you have?
When did you take this reading? First thing in the morning or after the lights had been on all day? pH will change during the day. It is not a simple topic.
I strongly encourage you to listen to this advice and get an alkalinity test before adding anything to the tank.
I couldnt agree more. Ph may drop for one reason, or another or many reasons cumulating in low ph. simply buffering a tank is not a slution to the WHY just a temporary not quite fix to the what.
several things can affect Ph like O2 low/CO2 high content, amino acid build up from the break down of waste, low alkalinity due to lack of calcium carbonate, low alkalinity cause by magnsium/calcium imbalance, and I am sure there is probably more thats just all I could yank off the top of my brain pan.
there are more than one step that should be taken before simply buffering the tank back up. IF you buffer the tank back up, the ph may drop again rapidly as the buffer gets used neutralizing some of (say in this hypothetical case amino acid build up is the problem. I'm NOT saying this is your problem, I'm just offering a hypothetical case to provide an example), the buffer then neutralizes some of the acidity causing the ph to rise temporarily. but since there was no removal of the waste causing the amino acid build up the amino's continue to rise and again acidify the water causing the ph to plummet. amino PH down, buff PH up, amino Ph down, buff PH up, you wind up doing the PH yoyo and never solve your problem, in fact this creates instability which can actually be worse than a low ph to begin with.
a few tests and looking at indicators in your tank can often lead you on the correct path to the problem. testing alk is key, if your alkalinity is low it could be from several factors, you need to find the cause, is it normal consumption from stony coral grownth, is it a drop due to acidity from either aminoa or excess co2 and so on. is the PH low because the lights just came on and nothing has been photosynthsizing all night.....
it really can be a mess when you just try to approach PH as a parameter to be fixed, instead of an indicator of other parameters or existing conditions in the tank.
http:///forum/post/3173625
YOu have to understand there are several reasons the pH can be low...and it may have nothing to do with additives to put in. Blindly adding stuff can cause problems. At a minimum you need an alkalinity test.
Do you have glass tops on the tank?
WHat surface aggitation do you have?
When did you take this reading? First thing in the morning or after the lights had been on all day? pH will change during the day. It is not a simple topic.
I strongly encourage you to listen to this advice and get an alkalinity test before adding anything to the tank.
I couldnt agree more. Ph may drop for one reason, or another or many reasons cumulating in low ph. simply buffering a tank is not a slution to the WHY just a temporary not quite fix to the what.
several things can affect Ph like O2 low/CO2 high content, amino acid build up from the break down of waste, low alkalinity due to lack of calcium carbonate, low alkalinity cause by magnsium/calcium imbalance, and I am sure there is probably more thats just all I could yank off the top of my brain pan.
there are more than one step that should be taken before simply buffering the tank back up. IF you buffer the tank back up, the ph may drop again rapidly as the buffer gets used neutralizing some of (say in this hypothetical case amino acid build up is the problem. I'm NOT saying this is your problem, I'm just offering a hypothetical case to provide an example), the buffer then neutralizes some of the acidity causing the ph to rise temporarily. but since there was no removal of the waste causing the amino acid build up the amino's continue to rise and again acidify the water causing the ph to plummet. amino PH down, buff PH up, amino Ph down, buff PH up, you wind up doing the PH yoyo and never solve your problem, in fact this creates instability which can actually be worse than a low ph to begin with.
a few tests and looking at indicators in your tank can often lead you on the correct path to the problem. testing alk is key, if your alkalinity is low it could be from several factors, you need to find the cause, is it normal consumption from stony coral grownth, is it a drop due to acidity from either aminoa or excess co2 and so on. is the PH low because the lights just came on and nothing has been photosynthsizing all night.....
it really can be a mess when you just try to approach PH as a parameter to be fixed, instead of an indicator of other parameters or existing conditions in the tank.
reefkprz
Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3173601
Be careful here. Testing new seawater before a water change is one thing, but testing RO water will always yield strange results because the water has no alkalinity. I've watched RO water swing 3 points in pH just from carrying it up the stairs in a bucket. .
just to explain why: there are no elements (or very few) in RO water to either act as acidifiers or buffers, so even a change in atmospheric air co2 content can cause the pH to plummet. CO2 enters and exits water readily, thats why when most people test RO water its ph is usually about 6.3 or so, but if you were to drop one granule of buffer in it the ph may jump to 8.3 as the one granule of buffer could be enough to neutralize the acidity of the co2 content.
dont bother testing the PH of your pure Ro its a total waste of time. the PH of pure RO water IS 7.0 any amount of any input can change it.
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3173601
The single best thing you can do to maintain pH and alkalinity is doing regular water changes; you hit it right on the head.
I agree its one of the best methods available.
http:///forum/post/3173601
Be careful here. Testing new seawater before a water change is one thing, but testing RO water will always yield strange results because the water has no alkalinity. I've watched RO water swing 3 points in pH just from carrying it up the stairs in a bucket. .
just to explain why: there are no elements (or very few) in RO water to either act as acidifiers or buffers, so even a change in atmospheric air co2 content can cause the pH to plummet. CO2 enters and exits water readily, thats why when most people test RO water its ph is usually about 6.3 or so, but if you were to drop one granule of buffer in it the ph may jump to 8.3 as the one granule of buffer could be enough to neutralize the acidity of the co2 content.
dont bother testing the PH of your pure Ro its a total waste of time. the PH of pure RO water IS 7.0 any amount of any input can change it.
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3173601
The single best thing you can do to maintain pH and alkalinity is doing regular water changes; you hit it right on the head.
I agree its one of the best methods available.