how do you read salifert kh/alk test

[sharkbait9]

ok i bought a salifert kh/alk test kit does a color bar come with this test kit or what i have no idea how to use this kit and the directions are not all that great. its just a copy on peice of paper. i hope this lfs did not sell a bogas kit

 

[turningtim]

No it doesn't have a color bar chart. And yes the directions are just copy paper. I felt the same way, kinda cheesy.
Add 2 drops of KH-Ind to the test vial (4ml water) and load up the black syringe up to the 1ml mark and slowly add the reagent drop by drop. When the color changes from Blue/green to pink/red stop adding reagent. Invert the syringe and read where the black stopper on the syringe is. This number will correlate to the number chart on the right side of the instructions.
HTH
Tim

 

[sharkbait9]

so it makes no dif what color it changes to? just keep adding drop by drop and once the color changes look right and that’s the number? So what if the number of counts falls in-between they seem to run by two, and I’m serious I have always used aquarium phars. and never had a bad reading now I’m going with salifert test and I guess it just seems to easy. oh and my alk in me chart don't show a reading of 2.9 so what’s happens there? my god a medic and I’m having trouble following syringe readings for a fish tank

 

[mrdc]

I use a Salifert calicum test but I do use a Fastest and Seachem test for alk. The alk tests basically read the same. I put drops in until the color turns from blue to yeloowish. Sometimes in between drops, the color looks as if it's going to change but it goes back to blue when it settles. One more drop and it usually changes color.

 

[chipmaker]

Not bogus in any way......easy to use and pretty self explanatory. Take and fill vial with amount of water specified in directions. Add the amount of drops as per directions, fill hypodermic syringe as per directions, and drop in the vial a drip at a time until you get the color change as per directions. Read the number on the line at the plungers end, and thats the reference number to use on the piece of paper included with instructions to get the alk level. Not trying to sound like a smart

[hr]
how I posted how to use the kit, I am just trying to walk you through each step and do it as per instructions and what you can expect to get at each step of them.
The one thing I found confusing wa the statement about air in syringe is ok etc.... Its pretty hard to eliminate any air out of the syringe due to the pipettes end being so small, the volumne of the pipette end and rthe viscosity of the liquid, so I do9 not pay any attention to air, or the plunger end at all. I insert syringe with pipette in the bottle, and start to suck it all up into thr syringe. I make sure that the liquid is a full column and no gaps init occur. I continue to pull liquid in the syringe until the top of the liquid hits the 1.0 mark, even if the plungers end is past this point. Keep the syringe pointed down and depress liquid until the color changes and read the number at the liquid level in the syringe and not the end of the plunger....I also leave what liquid is left in the pippete in the pippette, so do not pull it off and empty it when finished. It does no harm.
Way I understand it is the kits contents, (chemicals etc) are made in Sweden or some country in that area, and shipped by bulk to various other countries, where they are packaged and I guess as cheap as it seems using a cheap copy of instructions as they supply is probably good, as if they had nice printed out instructions like other kits have it would propbably add another $5 to the price of these already high $$ kits......

 

[turningtim]

There are made in Holland. I agree with chip, after i thought about it I would rather just pay for the better quaility chems than packageing. I use Tropic Marin calc and alk and always thought these readings were low. My tank always looked good but always ahd a question in my mind. I tested with the Salifert and my numbers couldn't be better.
I hope I'm right in trusting the Salifert kits.
Any thoughts?
Tim

 

[sharkbait9]

Air in the syringe that’s easy to remove, once the syringe is filled turn it up so the needle or tip as it were is up pull your piston back a little more and flick the head of the syringe, that will loosen the air and make the air unit into big bubbles and keep flicking the head till the bubbles travel to the head of the syringe at the point the bubbles are at the head and tip press your plunger to purge the air out and at which point the fluid or said chemicals will start to fill and push air out of the tip. Once the fluid starts to bulb out of the tip draw back the plunger till your fluid becomes neutral with the tip at that point if you have dosed right your plunger should at 0.75 ml the tip actually hold 0.25 ml more fluid so your really by 25 drips. Go ahead and try it draw 75 ml of fluid then pull you your pluger down to the 1. ml and you see the fluid is even with the head of the syringe, give or a take 0.01 ml. Then and only then will you get a true reading. So when you look at it at a true dosing rate you count is going to be off because you did not alot for the 0.025ml in the tip, that’s just me being a medic and used to dosing out meds. Any way no, I thank you for taking the time to run thru the directions as I have to admit I can follow directions normally with out a problem but for me I guess I was reading to far into the instructions. So do you or anyone inject the left over chems back into the bottles or do you discharge the syringe into the garbage. If you do not contaminate the chemicals with water or other stuff I see no reason not to discharge the chemical back into the bottle its not like its sterile and you have to worry about air contaminating it. yeah i was little disappointed with the instructions being a little on the cheap side but like you said it would have raised the price for astatically pleasing piece of paper

 

[turningtim]

I put the chems back in the bottle and make sure that I only use that syringe for the kit.
I kinda know how you feel, I to was a little disappointed that it wasn't more complex and earth shattering but oh well if they are the best at what they do, I'm happy.
Tim

 

[sharkbait9]

ok so my reading is 0.54 equaling 7.4 and i'm guessing my alk is 2.63. Sooooooo i 'm under in kh and over in alk so whats my steps to correct this and get the levels to the norm or what is best.

 

[chipmaker]

I do not pay any attention to the numbers in the alk column, I use just the KH/dKH values. YOu can buy B-Ionic 2 part additive. Use more of the one component top adjust Alk. What is your Calcium level? Often times a HIgh Calcium reading corresponds to a Low ALk reading. So, if yur CAL is high, do not do anything as of yet, and wait until CAL comes down and you should see a rise in ALK. If there is sufficieint levels of both at that time, even if both are on the low end, they you can add a 2 part additive to slowly bring it all up.
In regards to getting air out of syringes, I know how to get bubbles out but with some liquids the viscosty is such that they often times want to just stay stuck in that column in the syringe no matter how much you tap or bump it.....so I just make sure syringe / pippete tip is filled completely to the 1.0 mark without any regards to plunger location. Depressing plunger in no way changes anything and just read the remaining liquid level at color change.... Now if I was injecting someone with the liquid in a syringe its important to get all air out, but not necessarily the case in regards to water testing.

 

[weberian]

I really like my Tetra-Test for dKH. Put 5 ml of water in glass beaker. Then add drops of reagent until the color changes (cap and shake between each drop). Each drop equals one degree KH. Usually I put in 7 drops to start, shake, and then one drop at a time after that. LOVE IT. Less than $7.00 for the kit. LOVE IT. I do use Salifert for Calcium.

 

[birdy]

You take the reading off the black rubber end of the plunger, not the liquid, it doesn't matter one bit if you fill the syringe full or if there is a space, I promise, I have tested them both ways and it comes out the same.
Saliferts are the best because they are easy and accurate not because they are some sort of complex system.
I always go with the dkH reading personally, and I shoot for 8-9dkH.

 

[sharkbait9]

Ok maybe its just me and anal retentive ways , I’m not arguing this again this is just me and the way I have to do things. So just hear me out if you are testing and you draw 1.0 ml of fluid into the syringe and you are not accounting for fluid in the tip (being .0.24-0.25 then you really testing with a syringe of 1.25ml then on your reading your test still will be off by .0X that’s all I’m saying. I don’t know if the company accounted for a margin of error for consumer use. I’m not telling any of you to do this way. All I was saying if you truly want the best reading then you would have to account for the tip amount that’s all. As to tapping the air free yes the viscosity is a little on the thick side but I was still able to free the air and draw a true 1.0 reading and then filling the tip and having truly 1.0ml in the syringe and tip. As to the reading of the back of the plunger if at time of reading you are reading the bottom of the plunger and not the top then I guarantee your readings are wrong, The reading is done at the top of the plunger where o the ring of the plunger right above the black seal. Secondly how do you accurately take a reading where air taking X amount of space is just that air and not fluid? I understand what your saying about measuring air or liquid your still getting the reading cause air holds the volume where the liquid is not. That would be a fair statement if you could compress liquid but you can not, you can compress air but not a liquid and since without the proper gages you can not measure the air in the syringe so hence ever time you draw the plunger you are will be getting different amounts of air in the syringe yeah you can visible see that the air is taking x amount of space in the syringe but are you keeping in mind that air bubbles do bulb out so your space on every draw is going to be different. basic science, Air can expand taking up more space were as liquid no matter what the viscosity will thin out if it is spreading. The only time a liquid will retain space is in a solid state or void that can retain liquid without it being able to disperse or evaporate, such as the syringe. You test the way you wanted to test and I’ll test the way……………… ok here are two test results done one way and done the other way.
Test one : test equipment used one salifert KH/ALK profi test. Following directions filling test with 4ml of test water drawing syringe with kh fluid syringe shows 0.11ml of air. Results of 0.48ml on test syringe for a KH value of 8.3 result
Test two results: test equipment used one salifert KH/ALK profi test with the exception of the use of a clean test tub not the supplied testing cup salifert issues, for testing purposes I don‘t think different collection devises play a vital role. Following directions filling test with 4ml of test water drawing syringe with kh fluid syringe with 0 air trapped in tip and 0 air trapped in syringe. Results of 0.56ml of fluid in syringe and tip for a total of 7.0
So when shooting for a parameter of 8-9 dkh that’s a total value of 5. Or 13 points. Again I don’t know the margin of error but when trying to dose out buffers and additives I can only estimate your levels will be a higher or not reach your target value. Yes when raising or lowing your tanks values they should be in a subtle pace.
This test was for my own personal satisfaction, and not meant in an argumentative way just a little mind exercise.

 

[xrayman]

Put the plastic tip firmly on the 1 ml syringe.And draw into the syringe the KH reagent(ensure that the end of the plastic tip is constantly submersed in the KH reagent)till the lower end of the black part of the piston is exactly at the 1.00ml mark.There will be some air present just below the piston.This is the air which was present between the end of the plastic tip and the piston.This will not influence the test results.

 

[sharkbait9]

i can read and i did so i'm guessing the margin of error is in place

 

[chipmaker]

Sharkbait..
I also am not looking for an argument....I fully understand what you say about air and how it can be compressed and how liquid can not, so therefore air in the colummn of test fluid can alter results. BUT, if that air pocket is at the plunger end, and not any where in the liquid column at all, since its easier to get trapped air up at the plunger end than it is to expell it out the pipeytte end, and you deprerss the plunger until color change, and when thats achieved, read where the liquid is at in relationship to the graduations on the tube it will make no difference at all weather there is an airspace between plubger and liquid or no air. I may not have made my self clear when I posted as to how I do it, but I find it quick and simple to over draw the plunger and get a full syringe of liquid, and leave the air bubble on the plunger end and read off that liquid level than thump the syringe and try and get the air out that tiny opening on the pippete. As long as your liquid is at the 1.0 ml mark when the plunger is pulled up, any air above it should not make any difference. I can see where air in the column will affect it though as the air is getting compressed with the liquid on both sides of it, when plunger is depressed.

 

[sharkbait9]

Originally Posted by chipmaker
Sharkbait..
I also am not looking for an argument....I fully understand what you say about air and how it can be compressed and how liquid can not, so therefore air in the colummn of test fluid can alter results. BUT, if that air pocket is at the plunger end, and not any where in the liquid column at all, since its easier to get trapped air up at the plunger end than it is to expell it out the pipeytte end, and you deprerss the plunger until color change, and when thats achieved, read where the liquid is at in relationship to the graduations on the tube it will make no difference at all weather there is an airspace between plubger and liquid or no air. I may not have made my self clear when I posted as to how I do it, but I find it quick and simple to over draw the plunger and get a full syringe of liquid, and leave the air bubble on the plunger end and read off that liquid level than thump the syringe and try and get the air out that tiny opening on the pippete. As long as your liquid is at the 1.0 ml mark when the plunger is pulled up, any air above it should not make any difference. I can see where air in the column will affect it though as the air is getting compressed with the liquid on both sides of it, when plunger is depressed.
And that’s all I was saying how the air space can compromise the results of a test, and how i myself like to be as close as possible with my test reading for dosing purposes, that all.
I did and do like to read others ideas and ways of testing.