how many people here use bioballs?

fishylisa

Member
I'm trying to decided if I need them or not?....My system is about 3 years old and I have about 150pounds of LR and a deep sand bed....I was told that the bioballs hold alot of nitrate, and mines has been at 20 for 2 weeks now and that is with water changes and nothing new....Any help would be appreciated...oh and is it true that it is ok to have alittle nirtate?...Thank you.
 

damien2818

Member
try on ur next water change to clean them with the old salt water, i have bio ball for about a 1 year and never had a problem with my nitrates but i all so have lr as well as bio balls in my sump
 

rainmkr07

Member
Originally Posted by fishylisa
http:///forum/post/2590071
I'm trying to decided if I need them or not?....My system is about 3 years old and I have about 150pounds of LR and a deep sand bed....I was told that the bioballs hold alot of nitrate, and mines has been at 20 for 2 weeks now and that is with water changes and nothing new....
Bioballs = not good. Remove them. Just like bio-wheels should be removed from Emperor's. The nitrate factory will only get worse over time. Your Live Rock will achieve the very same thing, without the factory effect.
Originally Posted by fishylisa

http:///forum/post/2590071
oh and is it true that it is ok to have alittle nirtate?...Thank you.
Depends on what you have in your tank. Most things will be fine with Nitrates 5-20, but some won't. Your goal should be getting your Nitrates to 0.
 

nordy

Active Member
Originally Posted by fishylisa
http:///forum/post/2590071
I'm trying to decided if I need them or not?....My system is about 3 years old and I have about 150pounds of LR and a deep sand bed....I was told that the bioballs hold alot of nitrate, and mines has been at 20 for 2 weeks now and that is with water changes and nothing new....Any help would be appreciated...oh and is it true that it is ok to have alittle nirtate?...Thank you.


Bioballs CAN be a "nitrate factory", but with proper maintenance (cleaning once in awhile) and keeping a decent filter on the sump intake they WILL NOT be a nitrate factory. The first time I cleaned my bioball setup, after operating it about 5 years, they were filthy and covered w/algae. Now that I changed from fish to reef, and have less fish and a bunch of corals the bioballs stay clean and I have no algae buildup on them. Like a lot of things in this hobby, a little REGULAR maintenance goes a long way. This includes cleaning out the entire sump tank as well.
I am not necessarily advocating bioballs over othe filter setups, but if you have one already just clean them regularly (rinse in a tub of salt water, brush gently w/a soft bristle brush to remove algae etc) and they will be just fine. My nitrates have been at 0 for a long time w/just regular water changes.
There are other things that can contribute to your nitrate readings such as over feeding or a dirty substrate so look at thos as well.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by rainmkr07
http:///forum/post/2590126
Bioballs = not good. Remove them. Just like bio-wheels should be removed from Emperor's. The nitrate factory will only get worse over time. Your Live Rock will achieve the very same thing, without the factory effect.
Depends on what you have in your tank. Most things will be fine with Nitrates 5-20, but some won't. Your goal should be getting your Nitrates to 0.
Thank god I have something to vent the rantings of a lunatic mind. Bio balls do no not produce nitrates saying they do no good is like saying kill the messenger for bringing bad news. What bio balls are to me at least are multi-surfaced material where nitrifying bacteria colonize they do their job very well in a small space With out those bacteria our tanks would not exist. They are not a factory for producing nitrates. They are a very efficient platform for the nitrification process which ends in nitrates. Do they need to be cleaned? Of course just like our sponge filters and our blue/white filter material. Do they harbor denitrifying bacteria as live rock does? Of course not. But live rock can in no way compare to the surface area of nitrifying bacteria as bio balls can. You cannot condemn something for doing its job efficiently
 

chilwil84

Active Member
if you have a fish only or soft coral tank you are at the top end of being okay as far as nitrates.
 

rainmkr07

Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2591136
Thank god I have something to vent the rantings of a lunatic mind. Bio balls do no not produce nitrates saying they do no good is like saying kill the messenger for bringing bad news. What bio balls are to me at least are multi-surfaced material where nitrifying bacteria colonize they do their job very well in a small space With out those bacteria our tanks would not exist. They are not a factory for producing nitrates. They are a very efficient platform for the nitrification process which ends in nitrates. Do they need to be cleaned? Of course just like our sponge filters and our blue/white filter material. Do they harbor denitrifying bacteria as live rock does? Of course not. But live rock can in no way compare to the surface area of nitrifying bacteria as bio balls can. You cannot condemn something for doing its job efficiently
I have never seen a totm that uses bio balls. Not once. So I will continue to condemn away.
 

king kole

Member
bioballs are a good platform for the denitrifing process which ends in nitrates.bioballs are not a nitrate factory.hmmmm. me thinks he doth protest too much
. in answer to the bioball thing i took mine out slowly and replaced with very small and well cured gulf rock. i was keeping the bios clean but i my nitrates are 80% lower now with really porous small rock. i also added some on a platform in my sump area. just a preference i guess.
 

rainmkr07

Member
Originally Posted by King Kole
http:///forum/post/2591999
bioballs are a good platform for the denitrifing process which ends in nitrates.bioballs are not a nitrate factory.hmmmm. me thinks he doth protest too much
. in answer to the bioball thing i took mine out slowly and replaced with very small and well cured gulf rock. i was keeping the bios clean but i my nitrates are 80% lower now with really porous small rock. i also added some on a platform in my sump area. just a preference i guess.
I protest too much, yet your own testimony is that you removed your constantly kept clean bioballs and your nitrates are now down 80%? Ya, that makes sense. Sounds like a Factory to me!
 

sh00tist

Member
Bioballs cannot even come close to the denitrifying capacity of live rock/rubble. To the eye bioballs may appear quite porous,upon closer examination(on a microscopic level,where bacteria live) there is no comparison. The live rock is virtually covered with holes of all diferent shapes and sizes. These holes provide vastly more surface area for the desired bacteria to cling to and safely grow and reproduce. The problem that emerges over time with bioballs is that the holes become clogged with debris but more importantly clogged with bacteria. Once this happens the bacteria will begin to die off because there is no room for new growth,if something isnt growing,producing new cells and or reproducing then it will die. The same thing will happen with live rock over time,though it is a much longer time frame and one of the reasons people who have been in the hobby for a long time will change out their liverock. Bioballs will work fine but will fail much earlier than LR. Cleaning them is one solution though Im certain you lose a lot of the bacteria when you do this creating a certain amount of risk, it will grow back however. Ive been around salt for about 15 years and have tried to keep up with all the current trends,my logic at present is the more rock the better stuffed into any available spot in your system. If it were me I would slowly remove the balls replacing them with rubble or if that wasnt an option I would keep the balls fairly clean,maybe clean half of them every 4-6 months.
 

king kole

Member
Originally Posted by rainmkr07
http:///forum/post/2592026
I protest too much, yet your own testimony is that you removed your constantly kept clean bioballs and your nitrates are now down 80%? Ya, that makes sense. Sounds like a Factory to me!

i was just joking about florida joe's post. i think if you look at what i said i'm in total agreement with you. bioballs or bileballs are an idea with little merit if you factor in all the effort to maintain them with their effeciency. live rock is the simple and natural way to go why try to rationalize a bad idea?
 

king kole

Member
Originally Posted by sh00tist
http:///forum/post/2593038
Bioballs cannot even come close to the denitrifying capacity of live rock/rubble. To the eye bioballs may appear quite porous,upon closer examination(on a microscopic level,where bacteria live) there is no comparison. The live rock is virtually covered with holes of all diferent shapes and sizes. These holes provide vastly more surface area for the desired bacteria to cling to and safely grow and reproduce. The problem that emerges over time with bioballs is that the holes become clogged with debris but more importantly clogged with bacteria. Once this happens the bacteria will begin to die off because there is no room for new growth,if something isnt growing,producing new cells and or reproducing then it will die. The same thing will happen with live rock over time,though it is a much longer time frame and one of the reasons people who have been in the hobby for a long time will change out their liverock. Bioballs will work fine but will fail much earlier than LR. Cleaning them is one solution though Im certain you lose a lot of the bacteria when you do this creating a certain amount of risk, it will grow back however. Ive been around salt for about 15 years and have tried to keep up with all the current trends,my logic at present is the more rock the better stuffed into any available spot in your system. If it were me I would slowly remove the balls replacing them with rubble or if that wasnt an option I would keep the balls fairly clean,maybe clean half of them every 4-6 months.
thank you shOOtist
 

reefkprz

Active Member
Originally Posted by sh00tist
http:///forum/post/2593038
Cleaning them is one solution though Im certain you lose a lot of the bacteria when you do this creating a certain amount of risk, it will grow back however.
I sort of agree with most every thing you said there except for a few things.
biological bacteria forms a bio film. the longer the biofilm grows the stronger its adhesion to the surface its on. In an exerpt I was reading when a scientest was being interviewed about biological bacteria descriped it as virtually impossible to wash off a surface after its established. this part I will quote "you'll be hard pressed to get it off with a pressure washer" so rinsing your bioballs in marine water at every water change produces almost no removal of bactreria, I'm sure some bacteria gets dislodged in the process but the loss is extremly minimal. if you were to wash them in tap water doom to the colonized bacteria. but that would fall under improper maintinence. live rock in a drip sytems has every chance to get as clogged up as bioballs, in fact because off the smaller size of the pores and uneven/rougher texture of the rock it is actually more prone to detritus trapping and it needs to be cleaned out just as often as bioballs.
live rock rubble is far more effective submerged with high flow than it is in a trickle system the shapes of the rock and the way it packs together make dead spots in the trickle zone. the shape and pin spacing in bioballs is to create a splashing random path for water so all areas under the drip panel stay moist and to allow high oxygen exchange throughout the set up.
I agree that the surface area of bioballs is totally incomparable to the surface area you can pack in the same space with LR rubble, but a blanket statement like made by a previous poster that bioballs are bad is just nonsensical, they are good for what they do there are better filtrations available but can be very effectivly employed. its like saying HOB filters are useless, they have their uses though not as good in my opinion for marine tanks they can be effectivly employed. its improper maintinence that makes most filters "bad"
another thing that bioballs wont do that LR will is become impregnated with phosphates. live rock absorbs phoshates and one it reaches its peak absorption level it either stops absorbing it, or if the waters phosphate level drops below the the phosphate content of the rock the rock then re introduces phosphates to the system in a trickle system all of your water ends up passing through the drip zone constantly impregnating the rock with the phosphates (this happens through out your system to all your rock which is one reason lots of highly expirienced reefers tend to swap out old rock for new from time to time to avoid the ten year crash)
I could keep going on this subject but I am sure I have strayed far enough from my point already. basicly to sum up I will just say there is a pro and con to every type of filtration, each person needs to judge what will work best for them in their situation, and application, and decide what maintinence levels they are willing to provide to keep their system operating at maximum efficiency. bio balls arent bad they arent the best they are just another option for filtration.
 

ophiura

Active Member
Funny no one seems to care about anything else in the tank. Stock level? Feeding? Water changes? skimmer? Source water? Have you tested your source water?
Bioballs do not cause nitrate problems, people cause them.
In a FOWLR system with predators I would absolutely use them because they are very effective. If your tank is a low bioload SPS system then there would be very little need.
Nitrate issues are complex, and bioballs are one bit part in that.
If for 3 years you did not have a nitrate problem and in the last couple of weeks it has spiked, logically...IMO...it is not a bioball issue.
 
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