How many people use one way valves.
- Thread starter u235a4
- Start date
marinerock
Member
HEY U...
I USE A CHECK VALVE...GET A GOOD ONE AND THEY ARE
VERY DEPENDABLE....I WOULD NOT RUN A TANK WITHOUT
ONE...IF YOUR ELECTRICITY GOES OUT AND YOU DONT
HAVE ONE ON YOUR SYSTEM, YOURE PROBABLY GONNA HAVE
A FLOOD UNLESS YOU HAVE ANOTHER PRECAUTIONARY
MEASURE IN PLAY...
REGARDS...
MARINEROCK
I USE A CHECK VALVE...GET A GOOD ONE AND THEY ARE
VERY DEPENDABLE....I WOULD NOT RUN A TANK WITHOUT
ONE...IF YOUR ELECTRICITY GOES OUT AND YOU DONT
HAVE ONE ON YOUR SYSTEM, YOURE PROBABLY GONNA HAVE
A FLOOD UNLESS YOU HAVE ANOTHER PRECAUTIONARY
MEASURE IN PLAY...
REGARDS...
MARINEROCK
richard rendos
Active Member
If you plan your sump and return carefully, you won't have a flood in a power outage anyway.
zafirablanca
Member
I plumbed in a simple pvc swing check valve from McMaster-Carr (~ $10) into to the return line, just after my pump. I have anti-siphon holes in my return lines that perform when the power is shut off, but this is in place as a redundancy. It also alows me to run the sump with a bit more water in it than with the anti-siphon holes alone (based on testing the system).
-Christine
-Christine
scotts
Active Member
There are many different types of check vavles. They can be very dependable, just make sure to orient them the right way. First of all they need to be pointed in the correct orientation. Also swing check valves should be in a vertical line with the flow going up. Don't forget to include the siphon factor of water in the choice of check valve and oreientation of the check valve.
Scott
Scott
rangermonroe
Member
I live in the South and every time th ewind blows above ...say 50mph... the power goes out. So, in the last 18 months, I have woken up several times to no gurgling noises. This is quite shocking at 3 AM Ther is a mental progression that goes......"Quick...Something's Wrong! ..Burglar?..Fire?...wife ate beans? ..Nope, tank's outta gas". Get up to check if the check (one-way) valve has a piece of sand caught in it? Hell no!!
I have a hole drilled in my return line.
"Check valve...$6.95. Hole drilled $0. Peace of mind ? You do the math."
I have a hole drilled in my return line.
"Check valve...$6.95. Hole drilled $0. Peace of mind ? You do the math."
A
angelofdeath132
Guest
yes please! i would like a diagram also. i want to put a sump in my 55 but the flood everyone talks about is the reason i haven't yet!
broomer5
Active Member
I'll try my best to describe a siphon break.
Have you ever siphoned out water from a tank ?
Cleaning gravel or when doing a water change ?
You suck on the hose to get the siphon going right ?
What do you do when you want to stop the water flowing into the bucket ?
You lift the hose up out of the tank right ?
When you do this - you are venting the end of the hose to air, and this "breaks" the siphoning effect.
The water stops flowing into the bucket.
With a sump and overflow and return line - when the pump's running, the piping or hose running up to the spraybar is full of water - and it's shooting out into the tank. If the end of the spraybar is underwater - when the power is off and the pump stops - water will begin to siphon back down into the sump ~ just as it does when we are siphoning with a hose during a water change.
If we were to lift up on the spraybar - we could stop the water flowing just as we stop it during a water change.
But we aren't there to "babysit" the spraybar.
We don't know when the power will go off.
So we have to make sure the spraybar/return line VENTS itself.
We drill a small hole in the spraybar at the point we want the siphoning to stop. This point is VERY important.
This is the level that the water will STOP draining back to the sump when the pumps off.
Here's a rough diagram - hope it helps.
Have you ever siphoned out water from a tank ?
Cleaning gravel or when doing a water change ?
You suck on the hose to get the siphon going right ?
What do you do when you want to stop the water flowing into the bucket ?
You lift the hose up out of the tank right ?
When you do this - you are venting the end of the hose to air, and this "breaks" the siphoning effect.
The water stops flowing into the bucket.
With a sump and overflow and return line - when the pump's running, the piping or hose running up to the spraybar is full of water - and it's shooting out into the tank. If the end of the spraybar is underwater - when the power is off and the pump stops - water will begin to siphon back down into the sump ~ just as it does when we are siphoning with a hose during a water change.
If we were to lift up on the spraybar - we could stop the water flowing just as we stop it during a water change.
But we aren't there to "babysit" the spraybar.
We don't know when the power will go off.
So we have to make sure the spraybar/return line VENTS itself.
We drill a small hole in the spraybar at the point we want the siphoning to stop. This point is VERY important.
This is the level that the water will STOP draining back to the sump when the pumps off.
Here's a rough diagram - hope it helps.
broomer5
Active Member
Another way to insure a siphon break is to just have your return spraybar fitting very close to the water surface in the display tank.
When the pumps off - you get immediate venting as shown below.
Pump running - water shooting out at the surface.
You can just see the opening at the water surface.
When the pumps off - you get immediate venting as shown below.
Pump running - water shooting out at the surface.
You can just see the opening at the water surface.
jester
Member
nope, don't need one. I have 1 return system with 10 1/2 and 3/4 outlets(not exactly a spray bar). I depend on syphon breaks.
2 of the return outlets are 1/2 at the surface, and when the pump stops, water syphons back to the sump until the water level gets to the outlet and then stops. It's about 1/4 water line drop in the tank, plus plumbing contents which all make up about 6-10 gallons. There's always room in the sump for that.
2 of the return outlets are 1/2 at the surface, and when the pump stops, water syphons back to the sump until the water level gets to the outlet and then stops. It's about 1/4 water line drop in the tank, plus plumbing contents which all make up about 6-10 gallons. There's always room in the sump for that.
zafirablanca
Member
Great diagram Broomer, thank you. I know everyone appreciates you taking the time and effort to make up such a nice drawing. It really helps when you are trying out the plumbing thing for the first time, even with simple stuff.
Scott: Yes. I plumbed the swing check valve in a vertical run of pipe. The Mc Master-Carr online catalog was really good at specifying the performance and installation details on all of the check valves they offer (ALOT!). Very, very good point.
U235: The catalog I used to choose my check valve was pretty specific on the pros and cons of using each type of valve, including flow restriction. I really dont notice any more resistance on my pump since I installed mine. But, I chose one that really wasn't supposed to interfere much anyway. There are many, many types available. You kind of have to do your research. They are definetly not all the same.
BigMac: I do have my check valve situated so that I can remove it from the line (via a pvc union and a threaded connection to my return pump). So, I can clean it when I am doing maintainence. I also wouldn't rely on it exclusively. I am just a worrier, so this helps me mentally more than anything.
Thank you all for your responses. It was just a few months ago that I was asking these same questions and I wouldn't be as far along as I am now with out you! My lfs certainly wasn't this helpful with these details, and even then it was usually the advice/ opinion of one person. Then, of course the next time I was there a different person would tell me something else...
Thank god for swf.com!
-Christine
Scott: Yes. I plumbed the swing check valve in a vertical run of pipe. The Mc Master-Carr online catalog was really good at specifying the performance and installation details on all of the check valves they offer (ALOT!). Very, very good point.
U235: The catalog I used to choose my check valve was pretty specific on the pros and cons of using each type of valve, including flow restriction. I really dont notice any more resistance on my pump since I installed mine. But, I chose one that really wasn't supposed to interfere much anyway. There are many, many types available. You kind of have to do your research. They are definetly not all the same.
BigMac: I do have my check valve situated so that I can remove it from the line (via a pvc union and a threaded connection to my return pump). So, I can clean it when I am doing maintainence. I also wouldn't rely on it exclusively. I am just a worrier, so this helps me mentally more than anything.
Thank you all for your responses. It was just a few months ago that I was asking these same questions and I wouldn't be as far along as I am now with out you! My lfs certainly wasn't this helpful with these details, and even then it was usually the advice/ opinion of one person. Then, of course the next time I was there a different person would tell me something else...
Thank god for swf.com!
-Christine
broomer5
Active Member
JamesP
I have a return that vents 8 times a day when a return pump turns off ( timer ).
It's not failed yet.
Here's the deal on a drilled hole.
The law/science that make this drilled hole vent when exposed to air is about as "reliable" as you can get.
Could a snail happen to be crawling over the hole at the same time the power goes off, or you turn off the pump ?
Yes - it's possible.
Can something in the tank float over and block the hole ?
Yes - it's possible.
Are there other things that "could" happen that would not allow this drilled hole to be exposed to air, when the power goes off ?
I suppose so.
It's as reliable as that.
If you are worried - you can drill multiple holes, or position the spraybar/return fitting so very near the water surface - that then entire opening is vented "immediately" as the power's lost.
Test it and see how it works.
BTW - I forgot to mention ... I voted NO on using check valves.
I have a return that vents 8 times a day when a return pump turns off ( timer ).
It's not failed yet.
Here's the deal on a drilled hole.
The law/science that make this drilled hole vent when exposed to air is about as "reliable" as you can get.
Could a snail happen to be crawling over the hole at the same time the power goes off, or you turn off the pump ?
Yes - it's possible.
Can something in the tank float over and block the hole ?
Yes - it's possible.
Are there other things that "could" happen that would not allow this drilled hole to be exposed to air, when the power goes off ?
I suppose so.
It's as reliable as that.
If you are worried - you can drill multiple holes, or position the spraybar/return fitting so very near the water surface - that then entire opening is vented "immediately" as the power's lost.
Test it and see how it works.
BTW - I forgot to mention ... I voted NO on using check valves.
rangermonroe
Member
broomer...a picture paints a thousand words , but you paint a Picasso with less than 300, my man! And the picture backs you up.
I am not as advanced as Mr broomer (read lazy), so I drilled my 1/32" hole about 1/4" above the water. I have a little stream that flows about 2" out into the tank...a little tinkle stream if you will...I can see it if I look, and it causes no problems. If it is not there, a toothpick will fix it without unplugging anything.
FYI Green stuff does grow and cover the hole every 9 months or so, but it still works "as advertised".
I am not as advanced as Mr broomer (read lazy), so I drilled my 1/32" hole about 1/4" above the water. I have a little stream that flows about 2" out into the tank...a little tinkle stream if you will...I can see it if I look, and it causes no problems. If it is not there, a toothpick will fix it without unplugging anything.
FYI Green stuff does grow and cover the hole every 9 months or so, but it still works "as advertised".
dfimble
Member
If you are going to use a check valve, do not get the ones from the plumming section. They get dirty very quickly and cannot be cleaned. I know, because I had a very bad leak!
I use both, the hole near the top of the line, and a swing valve. I have about 90% confidence that the valve will work. It has worked for the last year, every time, but just in case I have the hole near the top. As far as flow goes, I have not noticed that the swing valve restricts the flow. I'm sure it does a little, but my pump is over sized anyway.
David
I use both, the hole near the top of the line, and a swing valve. I have about 90% confidence that the valve will work. It has worked for the last year, every time, but just in case I have the hole near the top. As far as flow goes, I have not noticed that the swing valve restricts the flow. I'm sure it does a little, but my pump is over sized anyway.
David