how much LR to start a cycle?
- Thread starter apolyom
- Start date
scsinet
Active Member
Live rock doesn't cycle a tank... I guess it might, if there is enough die off, but to kick off a cycle you can do a number of things. You can put damsels into the tank to start putting waste into the water, you can put ammonia directly into the system, or put something in there that will rot, such as a couple of uncooked tiger shrimp from the grocery store, etc.
The shrimp method is the preferred way to go these days. Just toss a couple in and leave the tank alone for two weeks, then start testing for the big 3 every other day (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Once the ammonia and nitrite read 0.0, do a 50% water change and add your first fish.
The shrimp method is the preferred way to go these days. Just toss a couple in and leave the tank alone for two weeks, then start testing for the big 3 every other day (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Once the ammonia and nitrite read 0.0, do a 50% water change and add your first fish.
royal gang
Active Member
negative, VERY bad idea.
scsinet
Active Member
Yeah your cycle has started. The live rock must have had enough on it to get it going. I'd still put something else in there, such as the shrimp, to make sure you build up enough of a bacteria population. One piece of LR might not have enough die off to really build up the population.
BTW, I'm curious as to what the bad idea is also.
BTW, I'm curious as to what the bad idea is also.
kailiek
Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
Yeah your cycle has started. The live rock must have had enough on it to get it going. I'd still put something else in there, such as the shrimp, to make sure you build up enough of a bacteria population. One piece of LR might not have enough die off to really build up the population.
BTW, I'm curious as to what the bad idea is also.
i think that the dead shrimp is a bad idea too, if you know what you are doing and can monitor and know when to take it out maybe but obviously this is a newbie, bad idea.
dude, go to the pet shop and get some CYCLE for saltwater or take his advise on putting a couple starter fish in and feed them. it takes a min of 8 weeks for a saltwater tank to do its thang, bear with it. if you put more rock in,(MORE) it will help but it is a waste in the tank kinda deal. put in your fish or cycle product and then wait check each week, jot it down and walk away. 8 weeks will go by quick if you have some damsels or mollies in there to watch. saltwater is a patient hobby. have fun with it
Yeah your cycle has started. The live rock must have had enough on it to get it going. I'd still put something else in there, such as the shrimp, to make sure you build up enough of a bacteria population. One piece of LR might not have enough die off to really build up the population.
BTW, I'm curious as to what the bad idea is also.
i think that the dead shrimp is a bad idea too, if you know what you are doing and can monitor and know when to take it out maybe but obviously this is a newbie, bad idea.
dude, go to the pet shop and get some CYCLE for saltwater or take his advise on putting a couple starter fish in and feed them. it takes a min of 8 weeks for a saltwater tank to do its thang, bear with it. if you put more rock in,(MORE) it will help but it is a waste in the tank kinda deal. put in your fish or cycle product and then wait check each week, jot it down and walk away. 8 weeks will go by quick if you have some damsels or mollies in there to watch. saltwater is a patient hobby. have fun with it
apolyom
Member
kaliek yeah i am new to SW but i have done a fair bit of research and found that everyone has different opinions. i am NOT however going to use any type of fish ESP mollies (being FW) to cycle the tank. as i said i only have one piece of LR in there at the moment and i am not particularly fussed if it dies off. i have also learnt that over time LR will regrow when place under more LR. i am going to use the shrimp as it is the most humane way and cheapest. and from what i've read the BEST method to use.
but thankyou anyway for your input. its all appreciated
but thankyou anyway for your input. its all appreciated
scsinet
Active Member
I'm a damsel/danio person; I always cycle a system with damsels for SW and danios for FW, but the current school of thought is that it's more or less cruel to the animals to use them for cycling because of what it does to them... it pretty much destroys their gills, so although I choose to do it, I usually tell people to do it the less cruel way but also mention the "fish way," leaving them to decide for themselves what to do. They might survive, but most of the sw fish that can surive the cycle aren't what you want in the system anyway...
You shouldn't have to worry about pulling the shrimp out unless there is livestock in the system, which he doesn't have. I haven't much experience with the commercial products like Cycle, other than that success with them seems to be somewhat unpredicable. Some people have had nothing but good luck, some people have had terrible problems.
Regardless, there are several ways to do it. Using fish is, IMO, the easiest, but given that the trend is going towards the dead shrimp method and the method isn't cruel to the fish, it's an approach that's worth considering, anyway.
You shouldn't have to worry about pulling the shrimp out unless there is livestock in the system, which he doesn't have. I haven't much experience with the commercial products like Cycle, other than that success with them seems to be somewhat unpredicable. Some people have had nothing but good luck, some people have had terrible problems.
Regardless, there are several ways to do it. Using fish is, IMO, the easiest, but given that the trend is going towards the dead shrimp method and the method isn't cruel to the fish, it's an approach that's worth considering, anyway.
scsinet
Active Member
Originally Posted by apolyom
kaliek yeah i am new to SW but i have done a fair bit of research and found that everyone has different opinions. i am NOT however going to use any type of fish ESP mollies (being FW) to cycle the tank. as i said i only have one piece of LR in there at the moment and i am not particularly fussed if it dies off. i have also learnt that over time LR will regrow when place under more LR. i am going to use the shrimp as it is the most humane way and cheapest. and from what i've read the BEST method to use.
but thankyou anyway for your input. its all appreciated
Don't worry about your LR. It'll survive. LR is "live" because it's encrusted with stuff that lives off the ammonia. What caused the ammonia spike is a partial die off, not total. If it's really good live rock that has lots of neat stuff on it like tiny corals, crustaceons, etc, that stuff may die, but once you get an established reef going, you'll find that stuff coming in on rocks you get with corals, etc all the time.
kaliek yeah i am new to SW but i have done a fair bit of research and found that everyone has different opinions. i am NOT however going to use any type of fish ESP mollies (being FW) to cycle the tank. as i said i only have one piece of LR in there at the moment and i am not particularly fussed if it dies off. i have also learnt that over time LR will regrow when place under more LR. i am going to use the shrimp as it is the most humane way and cheapest. and from what i've read the BEST method to use.
but thankyou anyway for your input. its all appreciated
Don't worry about your LR. It'll survive. LR is "live" because it's encrusted with stuff that lives off the ammonia. What caused the ammonia spike is a partial die off, not total. If it's really good live rock that has lots of neat stuff on it like tiny corals, crustaceons, etc, that stuff may die, but once you get an established reef going, you'll find that stuff coming in on rocks you get with corals, etc all the time.
apolyom
Member
yeah i've notice on my LR all these little tube like things wondering what they might be. i did however find 2 little white stars when i first put it in the tank but i think they may have been filterised lol. im also going with a FOWLR tank. i'll take pics and post them as i progress if you like.
when i found the stars i was like a little kid at christmas lol
when i found the stars i was like a little kid at christmas lol
apolyom
Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
Holy crap... your stamina makes me jealous.
I can't even have an empty tank in the house for that long without figuring out something to do with it.
Cycling SUCKS. I've cycled systems dozens of times, and every time I am still tempted to start sticking fish in.
well the main reason for that is not because i wanted to..... its because i HAD to.. $$$$$ turns out ALOT more expensive than first thought. but its also very rewarding and worth it IMO anyway
Holy crap... your stamina makes me jealous.
I can't even have an empty tank in the house for that long without figuring out something to do with it.
Cycling SUCKS. I've cycled systems dozens of times, and every time I am still tempted to start sticking fish in.
well the main reason for that is not because i wanted to..... its because i HAD to.. $$$$$ turns out ALOT more expensive than first thought. but its also very rewarding and worth it IMO anyway
kailiek
Member
yes if you ask 10 people you get 12 answers but speaking from a multi aquaria store owner for many years you can muck up a tank with dead if there are too many, just a thought. and as for mollies, i have had them live for a long time and breed in saltwater tanks.( if they thrive enough to live and breed long lives that is not cruel) live fish is a good way to go if it is something you dont intend to keep like a mean damsel then dont have so much rock that you cant get them out and trade them for something like a clown or what ever can go the next step of the tank. as for cycle there are many wonderful products that do all that work for you and dont cause end problems. chemistry has come a long way.
i do see you point of view and respect it. danios though are stricktly fresh water as for mollies are basically a brackish water fish.
i do see you point of view and respect it. danios though are stricktly fresh water as for mollies are basically a brackish water fish.
scsinet
Active Member
Originally Posted by apolyom
thanks SCSI i'll get the prawns in there tonight. its a 400g tank how many would you recommend? also should i wait for the cycle to complete before i add more LR or would it be ok to just keep adding it as i get it?
I've never cycled a system that size.... cool, I'm green with envy... :hilarious
so I can't exactly tell you how many. Given that your ammonia is already at .25, you might consider adding just one or even a half of one for now. One dead jumbo tiger shrimp represents like a month worth of fish waste. You don't want to overdo it... some of the other posters here are afraid of doing it this way for a reason... overdoing it could make all sorts of bad things happen.
Add all the LR you can DURING the cycle. The curing process of LR helps the cycle along. You don't want to have to go through the trouble of curing your live rock in an outside system. The die off from the rock as it cures will cause problems in an established system. You can get cured LR, but given that all you've added is one piece of LR and your ammonia is at .25, then wherever you are getting the LR isn't selling you cured stuff. This can be to your advantage.
In fact, given that you are planning to add more live rock, I'd skip the shrimp/prawns all together and keep adding live rock. All that LR curing in your system is MORE than enough to cycle it, no fish, no nothing needed, and you can avoid any of the risks of cycling with shrimp/prawns entirely. Once you are finished adding live rock, wait for your ammonia and nitrite to zero out, do your water change, and you are golden.
thanks SCSI i'll get the prawns in there tonight. its a 400g tank how many would you recommend? also should i wait for the cycle to complete before i add more LR or would it be ok to just keep adding it as i get it?
I've never cycled a system that size.... cool, I'm green with envy... :hilarious
so I can't exactly tell you how many. Given that your ammonia is already at .25, you might consider adding just one or even a half of one for now. One dead jumbo tiger shrimp represents like a month worth of fish waste. You don't want to overdo it... some of the other posters here are afraid of doing it this way for a reason... overdoing it could make all sorts of bad things happen.
Add all the LR you can DURING the cycle. The curing process of LR helps the cycle along. You don't want to have to go through the trouble of curing your live rock in an outside system. The die off from the rock as it cures will cause problems in an established system. You can get cured LR, but given that all you've added is one piece of LR and your ammonia is at .25, then wherever you are getting the LR isn't selling you cured stuff. This can be to your advantage.
In fact, given that you are planning to add more live rock, I'd skip the shrimp/prawns all together and keep adding live rock. All that LR curing in your system is MORE than enough to cycle it, no fish, no nothing needed, and you can avoid any of the risks of cycling with shrimp/prawns entirely. Once you are finished adding live rock, wait for your ammonia and nitrite to zero out, do your water change, and you are golden.
scsinet
Active Member
Originally Posted by kailiek
danios though are stricktly fresh water as for mollies are basically a brackish water fish.
Sorry if I sounded like I was saying danios are a way to cycle saltwater... yeah that won't work too well unless you let them die and rot...
I was saying I use Danios to cycle freshwater systems and Damsels for saltwater.
danios though are stricktly fresh water as for mollies are basically a brackish water fish.
Sorry if I sounded like I was saying danios are a way to cycle saltwater... yeah that won't work too well unless you let them die and rot...
I was saying I use Danios to cycle freshwater systems and Damsels for saltwater.
