How should I add a refugium?? help please

[crashjt]

I am going to be putting together a fuge for my 55 and I was wondering how you would go about adding it I can figure out the plumbing part fine that doesn't seem that difficult but my question is you cant just build it through some mud,water, and a couple plants in it and just pipe it right in ....Can you??? that just doenst seem right my tank is not real old but it is established up and running and I will be all kinds of P.O'd if I start killin' stuff now any tips are greatly appreciated

 

[florida joe]

I can give you a six page answer or a three word answer which would be "yes you can" ask some more spicific questons and you will get all the answers you need from the board members

 

[crashjt]

Im sorry... I dont know much about it so I guess a six pager would be great..lol anyway Im just concerned about throwing it in there I figured you would have to do something special but if your saying no then I guess thats all I needed to know I was figuring on it having to cycle or something??? which now that I say it that doesnt make much sense either...

 

[robertmathern]

Yes you can just plumb it up and put it in. Just if it going to be a refugium only(no sump for skimmer) then you will want to section off a compartment for you return pump so it dont suck up you agle. If you are putting a skimmer in there I would make three compartments 1 for the skimmer 1 fuge 1 return. There are alot of threads here about building them it is easy. And as far as having to cycle it no you dont not. You dont cycle the water you add to your tank for water changes do you. My point there is that just fill it with saltwater and it will mix with the rest of your water so it is the same as a water change but you are just adding more water to your system.

 

[florida joe]

With all do respect research refugium from what they are to their benefits then come back with your specific questions that said if you are asking if you add sand or mud to a refug. And plumb it to your DT will it need to be cycled the answer to no. What will happen is the existing nitrifying bacteria will eventually colonize the refug BUT if you are going to add live rock depending on the time frame from your supplier to your refug and if the rock was properly cured you may or may not have a die off on the rock which can cause your tanks water parameters to spike

 

[robertmathern]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2867969
With all do respect research refugium from what they are to their benefits then come back with your specific questions that said if you are asking if you add sand or mud to a refug. And plumb it to your DT will it need to be cycled the answer to no. What will happen is the existing nitrifying bacteria will eventually colonize the refug BUT if you are going to add live rock depending on the time frame from your supplier to your refug and if the rock was properly cured you may or may not have a die off on the rock which can cause your tanks water parameters to spike
Thats a good point joe. Must use cured rock. And by this I mean cure the rock not just listen to what the lfs tells you that it is cured. Put in a tub with a power head and heater for a while and check the water params. The rock must be cycled. Good catch joe I should have stated that.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by robertmathern
http:///forum/post/2867977
Thats a good point joe. Must use cured rock. And by this I mean cure the rock not just listen to what the lfs tells you that it is cured. Put in a tub with a power head and heater for a while and check the water params. The rock must be cycled. Good catch joe I should have stated that.
I think we need to also point out that live rock is not a Prerequisite for a refug again we need to know what his or her specific goals are in adding a refug

 

[crashjt]

I have searched refugium and did find some great advise on how to build it but no real specifics as to how to plumb it or wait time etc.. so thanks for those responses and as far as what I am planning on doing. I mainly want it to help with trates and from what I understand it can add befeficial bacteria so from what I have read "Having one can't hurt" anyway I haven't done much research on sand or mud I thought mud may be better and I have a decent amount of LR in my DT so I didnt see the need to add it to the Fuge...am I mistaken??

 

[crashjt]

Also I was thinking of using one of those sock type inputs for the fuge would this be a good idea or really make no diff.
This is the basic Idea I was thinking of not saying that I would buy this exact one I'ld prolly make it myself but I like the input in the corner so there was more space for the plants...??whatcha think

 

[robertmathern]

no you dont have to use lr in the fuge if all it is for is natrate export mud and some chetao alge would be just fine imo. And as far as plumbing there are at least a million way to do it. Do you have a sump or someting you can do a hob fuge for chetao. If you want to do an under tank type. All you need is an overflow to the fuge and a return pump back to the tankfor your case the easy way to do a return is a lineloc type of return just try googleing it you will see what I am talking about. its just a tube from the pump to a nozzle in the tank.

 

[robertmathern]

Originally Posted by CRASHJT
http:///forum/post/2867994
Also I was thinking of using one of those sock type inputs for the fuge would this be a good idea or really make no diff.
This is the basic Idea I was thinking of not saying that I would buy this one I'ld prolly mak it myself but I liked the input in the corner so there was more space for the plants...??whatcha think
http://cgi.----.com/REFUGIUM-FILTER-...QQcmdZViewItem
I do recomend a sock filter on the overflow tube. It will catch all the nasties that get sent down there. But you will have to keep them clean. From what I hear you have to clean them every few days. And if you do make it yourself witch I recomend will save you lots of money make the return pump area bigger or you will have to top off twice a day. Also add anothe baffle so the water has to go under it to the return pump (air trap) it will help with micro bubbles.

 

[crashjt]

I dont think having to clean it would bother me as it is Im used to spending quite a bit of time on the tank daily Im sure it would get old but what your saying is what I was thinking it would just be another large partical type filter and would basically only make the water clearer really couldnt hurt I have to say for the most part I think I have the hang of the hobby but I still have a bad habbit of over analizing things and freak out...lol
I dont understand why does a bigger area for the return equal less top off?

 

[robertmathern]

I know what you mean there. lol And yeah more filtration can never hurt as long as it is maintained.

 

[florida joe]

Ok post a pic of your sump and lines going from your tank to the sump for starters you do not need a pump for the return if you drill a hole and put a bulkhead in and have that hole at a higher level then the top or your sump. You can just feed into your sump. IMO you are better off targeting nitrates via anaerobic bacteria and higher forms of algae you can harvest for export. There are many people on the boards that can give you great advice but I for one would like to see some pics of your under tank area

 

[crashjt]

Ill get those for you tonight I appreciate all advice on this because if I cant do it right there isnt much point in doing it as far as drilling the hole I would love to do it that way but I dont think my situation will allow that but Ill get the pics and you can see what Im talking about...Thanks again

 

[crashjt]

O.k here goes some of this Im sure will be TMI but I figure more info cant hurt...
this is the FTS those are maxi-jet1200 power heads and my overflow box/return (obvious I know but hoping to give the whole picture..)

back of the overflow box it only has the one hook up Im thinking Im going to have to get the one that has two...??

My sump with skimmer/Uv steralizer etc. the overflow goes straight here then is pumped straight out no fittings or valves

picked up the new 10 gall today this is where Im planning/would like to place it

Some other shots/angles of the filter and underside

Oh and this is the other end oposite of the overflow I could add a seperate overflow on this end but would like to just run the one if possible to keep the tank as uncluttered as possible

I hope this helps thanks again for all your help

 

[florida joe]

Ok first things first this is just what I would consider not what you should or must do just a little barnstorming. I see how you get water to your sump but not how it gets returned I am assuming you have a pump in your sump for the effluent. So lets start from the sump and work backward. Pic number 5 is what I will talk about. If you remove the empty tank to the right of your sump and replace it with the refug you showed a pic of and turned it so the influent of the refug was to the right and moved the duel timer and butted the ref up against the sump that’s a start. Now I would measure how much I would have to build up under the refug to have the top of it above the top of your sump. Place what you need under the refug. Now if its possible have a hole drilled in the side of the refug and a bulkhead installed. You could put a piece of PVE in the bulkhead and an elbow and short piece of pipe so the effluent water from the refug would flow into your sump. What is left is to get the water from your tank to go into your refug via gravity feed and valve it off so you can control flow. If you can send some pics of how the water gets from your tank into your sump.
Remember we are just talking out loud here please don’t do anything until it is completely thought out. I will post some pics of my set up tomorrow

 

[crashjt]

I understand what your saying and I greatly appreciate your help......
1) yes there is a pump in the sump I dont know much about it as in gph etc but it is returned through that little black pipe.squashed fitting you can see at the back of the tank 2) If you look at pic #2 that grey hose at the overflow goes down and then you see it again inpic #6 it goes straight to the sump no valves etc its kinda hard to get the camera back there hope this helps..... also that empty tank you speak of is going to be the fuge its a 10 gallon tank I picked up tonight kinda starting with a clean slate where would you put the effluent into the sump? (before the filter/bio balls or into the open part where the skimmer is also how could I avoid micro bubbles if I did that?) wow this is getting way more involved than I thought Im glad I have your help

 

[crashjt]

Here are some extra pics of the sump/fuge area I placed some books under the tank to get it as high as I could and still clear a light there is normally a drawer there but I figure I could loose the drawer and make it a removable false front if you think its the better way is it bad to have another pump in the fuge???
return pump in the sump

this is the drawer opening Im talking about its kinda hard to see but that black line is the top of the fuge

extra pics of the sump...

 

[florida joe]

as you can see by my other threads started today i am busy stiring things up but will get with you again tonight if not on wed i am sure more of the good people will get involved