hypo question

[merlin-ls]

I have had my flame angel in hypo for 7 days now. Refractometer reads 1.009, amonia 0 nitrate & nitrite at 0, PH is at 8.3. QT tank has been setup for 3 months. The flame barely showed signs of ich initialy but I wanted to hypo him before placing him in my new 120. After a week of hypo, he has become rather lethargic and I have noticed some discoloration around his face & mouth. His color seems to be fading & he barely eats. The fish was totally fine (except for an occasional sign of ich). I had him in my old 75 tank for almost a year and he never acted or looked like this before. When he swims close to the surface, I can almost reach into the tank and clasp my hand around him w/o him even trying to swim away. Is this type of behavior to be expected, or do i just have a retarted fish? Any help apreciated.

 

[beth]

I would say that that is not normal, especially since the fish was not like that before.
How is he eating? What are you feeding the fish? Do a good check on him with a magnifying glass, particularly the gills. Are gills red, or swollen? How's the fish breathing?
How do you have your QT set up? Are there places for the clown to hide or feel comfortable.

 

[merlin-ls]

He seems to be eating a little better (still not much though). I am feeding him frozen brine shrimp. The tank is 20gal & has 2 large pieces of baserock for him to hide behind & under. His breathing is not rapid at all (infact i think its slower than normal). His gills do seem a bit red but its very hard to tell since the fish itself is red. btw its a flame angel not a clown

 

[beth]

Is brine shrimp all that the fish will eat?? That really isn't a balanced enough menu. Can you get zoe or zoecon to add on the food?
How is the circulation in the hospital tank?

 

[merlin-ls]

I soak his food in zoe marine & I have a Hagen 201 (126gph) just for circulation + a hang on filter with its own pump. Circulation seems fine.

 

[beth]

And, what about the food? A diet of just brine, isn't really adequate. Will the fish eat other foods?

 

[merlin-ls]

Im more than willing to try anything. what do you suggest as a good diet for most reef fishes? Yes im sure he will eat more than just brine.

 

[beth]

Take a look at the "fish food network" thread which is currently active in this forum. Also, there have been topics on this. Try doing a search on "fish food".

 

[merlin-ls]

I have been feeding him different types of frozen food all soaked in zoe & zoecon, but I do not thint this is a food related problem.
I have owned this fish for almost a year. About 7 months ago I introduced a purple tang that had ich & died some time later. Since then about 1 time a month i would see a very small spot of ich on the flame angel's tail. Other than that, the fish was fine.
Since he has been in QT he has gotten worse & worse. I recently calibrated my refractometer & discovered that it was reading to hi by about .003. I took another reading of my QT tank that I thought was at 1.009 & found it was actually at 1.012. At this point the fish was barely eating at all. (He has never had a problem eating before QT). I lowered the salinity to 1.009 & the next day the fish was barely able to swim. He has gone from lethargic to barely floating around the tank on his side or even upsidedown. He basicly just floats around the top of the tank now. It seems like the closer i get to 1.009 the worse the fish does. I am considering raising the salinity back to normal just to see if he will recover.

 

[beth]

If the fish is floating around like that, than I believe it is just too late. Hypo would not cause this. However, a fish that has been struggling with ich for some time is probably just too weak by now. If the fish has had repeated bouts, light though they may have been, it would eventually catch up with him. Ich feeds on fish tissue sapping the fish's immune system as well as vitality and health. This is a good example of why all fish need to be treated immediately once ich is discoved in the fish tank--regardless of whether fish show symptoms or not.
Also, the quality of the water in your QT may not be optium. I belive the former is the problem.

 

[flamehawk]

The same symptoms were evident on my flame angel when put in hypo. He too did exactly the same things. I chalked it up to cyanide poisoning but now I'm thinking it was a bad reaction to hypo. Can't ignore that we now have 2 cases of exactly the same reaction to hypo for the same fish. It may be possible that flame angels don't tolerate this method of treatment very well. This sounds like a research project for someone. I personally would not recommend this treatment for flame angels until we know more.

 

[merlin-ls]

Since yesterday I have raised the salinity back to 1.013 & the fish is fine now. He is swimming normally and starting to eat again. His color faded around his face & mouth when I began hypo. I am going to continue raising the salinity back to normal & see if his color returns.
I will let you know.

 

[beth]

How are you guys lowering your specific gravity when doing hypo? And are you testing for pH during the lowering process?

 

[flamehawk]

I loweered slowly over several days. PH did go down from 8.2 to 8.0.
Merlin- Glad to here that he's doing better. I wish I had started to raise the salinity sooner and maybe my FA would still be alive. Now I'm really dissappointed because I'm begining to feel I could have done more to save him and probably should not have hypo'd him. Live and learn....unfortunately the hard way. Like I said earlier we should probably not recommend hypo for FA's until we know more.

 

[merlin-ls]

i was removing about .5 gallon of water from the QT tank & replacing it with ro/di water several times a day. I took about 5 days to reach what i thought was 1.009. I was testing PH 2-3 times per day & was buffering as needed. my ph never droped below 8.0.

 

[merlin-ls]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I talked to a Seachem rep. last night at my LFS about Cupramine. He seemed to think that it is the best option also.
I had just compleeted a water change 2 days before I placed him in the QT tank. He had one very small spot on his tail fin.
The fish is recovering now. His color has returned & he is basicly back to his old self. I am going to keep him in QT for another 2-3 weeks to see if the ich breaks out again.
Thanks again

 

[flamehawk]

Glad you got him out of hypo. It doesn't seem to be for all fish.