Ich from inverts?

[nate213]

I have a 75g that has been established for approx 3-years and no new fish for the last year. I have only had the tank for about 2-months (got it from a family member). Now the Naso tang has 5-6 white spots. None of the other fish have any symptoms. The only new additions are 10 hermits, an emerald crab, 2 porcelain crabs and a feather duster. (All purchased last week) The crabs were ordered from SWF and the Feather duster came from the LFS coral only tank. Is it possible that this is ick and can it be transferred by inverts?

 

[al mc]

Anything that is 'wet' can bring in Ich to your tank. So yes, the inverts you added could have brought in the parasite.

 

[sepulatian]

Ich can be brought in by inverts. I think that it is more likely that ich was already in there, but in small numbers. The move stressed the fish and weakened their immune system, which allowed ich to attach. Healthy fish can fight off parasites, but not to the extent of them dieing from lack of host. What stock do you have? Do you have coral?

 

[nate213]

Yes I have some zoos, mushrooms and yellow polyps. Should I take out all the fish and QT them, or can they fight off the ick? I dont have a QT yet, but I have several empty tanks in the basement.
My current fish list is:
2- False Percula Clowns
1- 5"-6" Naso Tang
1- 4" Coral Beauty
1- 3" Midnight (nox) Angel
4 - 2" Blue Green Chromis

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Nate213
http:///forum/post/2610171
Yes I have some zoos, mushrooms and yellow polyps. Should I take out all the fish and QT them, or can they fight off the ick? I dont have a QT yet, but I have several empty tanks in the basement.
My current fish list is:
2- False Percula Clowns
1- 5"-6" Naso Tang
1- 4" Coral Beauty
1- 3" Midnight (nox) Angel
4 - 2" Blue Green Chromis
Here is what I would do, being you have extra tanks. Bring one upstairs that will be able to handle these fish for at least 5-6 weeks. The larger the tank, the more room for error, if need be. Cycle this tank. Don't cycle it the normal way that you would cycle a new DT, you don't have that kind of time. Add some sand from the display. Add some rock from the display. Add some fish food. Before the fish go in, take the rock out. Keep using the stuff in the bottle. It will keep ich off of their bodies, sort of. Don't wait until they are infested to start putting them into the QT. They all need to be treated though.

 

[nate213]

I havent used any treatments yet. I just discovered the spots. How long should I cycle before I add the fish?
I have:
5-10 gallon tanks
1-40 gallon
1-55 gallon
1-75 gallon
Would it be better to separate them out, or just put into one of the larger tanks. Also the 75 is new, the rest had Africans in their previous lifetimes. Will this be a problem?

 

[nate213]

Ok here are some photos of the spots.

 

[sepulatian]

Run the 75, if you can. If not, then clean the 55 very well with white vinegar. Use water from your display. The larger the tank, the more diluted the water will be. Use filter pads from your display. Several cups of sand would help too, not too much, but just a skim from the top.

 

[beth]

It could be a mild case ich that just came with the tank, and went unnoticed by the previous owner. Try massive garlic feeding, per the info in the FAQ.

 

[nate213]

Ok, so I tried the garlic feeding and there are no more white spots on the tang. The weird thing is the day after I last posted, the areas that had spots turned into small white streamers. They looked like very small worms or flesh hanging off the sides of the fish? None of the other fish have any symptoms. Two days after garlic feeding and there is nothing, no white spots, no streamers. Is it possible that these were a parasite other than ich? It was only 5-6 spots and they are completely gone.
Im still going to get the QT tank setup, but I dont want to have to tear apart my DT if it isnt necessary. All the fish look perfect and are feeding as usual.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Nate213
http:///forum/post/2616114
Ok, so I tried the garlic feeding and there are no more white spots on the tang. The weird thing is the day after I last posted, the areas that had spots turned into small white streamers. They looked like very small worms or flesh hanging off the sides of the fish? None of the other fish have any symptoms. Two days after garlic feeding and there is nothing, no white spots, no streamers. Is it possible that these were a parasite other than ich? It was only 5-6 spots and they are completely gone.
Im still going to get the QT tank setup, but I dont want to have to tear apart my DT if it isnt necessary. All the fish look perfect and are feeding as usual.
It is possible that the fish had something other than ich. If the fish is not showing signs of anything then don't bother tearing apart the tank. Keep a close eye on all of your fish. I would still set up the QT and get it cycled though.

 

[nate213]

Ok, so I setup the QT and yesterday I noticed that the tang had a major ich breakout. It is weird how fast that can happen, one day no spots, the next he was covered with them. So far the other fish look good. So I had to tear apart the DT and transport them to the QT. That was a whole day project. At least I got some new arrangement in the DT.
I ordered a refractometer last week, but it hasnt arrived yet. Should I wait to start hypo, or attempt with the crummy swing arm hydrometer?
Also what filter is best on a non-cycled tank? I have several different style filters laying around. I did remove some of the filter media from my DT and place it in the QT to help the process.

 

[tizzo]

Absolutely wait til you get the refractometer!

 

[beth]

You can use a glass float type hydrometer to get down to hypo conditions, and then, when the refract arrives, you can ensure that the salinity readings are precise. If there is any variation between hydrometer and the refract, then your starting hypo time counts with the refract readings. Basically you start the 3 wk count when no more ich is present on the fish.

 

[nate213]

Ok, I started the hypo but I will make final adjustment when I get the refractometer. It is down to 1.016 according to the swing arm. All the fish except the Tang are doing well. The tang is breathing fast and only through one gill. The other gill is clamped shut. No redness or anything else obvious. It was breathing fine yesterday. QT had a minor ammonia spike today to 0.25 ppm and I made 2 - 20% changes. Could the ammonia be affecting the tang and not the rest?

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Nate213
http:///forum/post/2621214
Ok, I started the hypo but I will make final adjustment when I get the refractometer. It is down to 1.016 according to the swing arm. All the fish except the Tang are doing well. The tang is breathing fast and only through one gill. The other gill is clamped shut. No redness or anything else obvious. It was breathing fine yesterday. QT had a minor ammonia spike today to 0.25 ppm and I made 2 - 20% changes. Could the ammonia be affecting the tang and not the rest?
Are you watching the PH? It has a tendency to drop in hypo. Do you have water movement in the tank? How quickly did you drop the SG?

 

[nate213]

PH has dropped from 8.2 yesterday morning to 8.0 this evening. Im going to buffer the change water to try and keep at this level.
I started with 1.022 SG yesterday morning and after 3 changes (last night, this morning, this evening) Im down to 1.016. Since all I have is the swing arm, Im not sure how accurate the numbers are. I have been trying to change out 1/5 of the water volume each time. Im running a couple of Maxijet 1200s, a Millenium 3000 and a H.O.T. Magnum canister filter.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Nate213
http:///forum/post/2621375
PH has dropped from 8.2 yesterday morning to 8.0 this evening. Im going to buffer the change water to try and keep at this level.
I started with 1.022 SG yesterday morning and after 3 changes (last night, this morning, this evening) Im down to 1.016. Since all I have is the swing arm, Im not sure how accurate the numbers are. I have been trying to change out 1/5 of the water volume each time. Im running a couple of Maxijet 1200s, a Millenium 3000 and a H.O.T. Magnum canister filter.
A sudden drop in PH will make fish act weird. PH is measured logarithmic. Each point is ten times different than the one before. The ph became 100x more acidic in a day. He will be alright, just try to keep it stable.

 

[nate213]

I got the refractometer the other day, and I was shocked how far off my swing arm was. I knew from reading on this site that they were inaccurate, but I had no idea it would be this bad. My DT reads 1.025 on the swing arm, but 1.031 on the calibrated refractometer.

Im suprised that I havent killed anything yet.
Now that I have adjusted my QT properly all the fish are doing quite well. I am getting 0.5 ammonia and 0.5 on nitrites readings every day, but I have been doing at least one and sometimes two 50% changes each day. I expect this since my QT wasnt properly cycled, but how long should I expect readings this high?
Also thanks for all the help, I have no doubt that all my fish would be dead if it werent for this site.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Nate213
http:///forum/post/2628958
I got the refractometer the other day, and I was shocked how far off my swing arm was. I knew from reading on this site that they were inaccurate, but I had no idea it would be this bad. My DT reads 1.025 on the swing arm, but 1.031 on the calibrated refractometer.

Im suprised that I havent killed anything yet.
Now that I have adjusted my QT properly all the fish are doing quite well. I am getting 0.5 ammonia and 0.5 on nitrites readings every day, but I have been doing at least one and sometimes two 50% changes each day. I expect this since my QT wasnt properly cycled, but how long should I expect readings this high?
Also thanks for all the help, I have no doubt that all my fish would be dead if it werent for this site.
Yep, When I got my refractometer I found out the same thing. I was so precise with my swing arm too. I made sure the SG was 1.025 in the FOWLR and 1.026 in the tank with inverts. I found out that the were 1.030 and 1.031. Keep doing the changes. You have nitrite which means it is cycling through. Keep up the good work!!