ich how to get rid of it for good?

[colbalt60]

hello all. this is my first time posting and i have read plenty form all of the previous posts, however i have also been working with my lfs with his recommendations. i have a 90 gallon fowlr just lost my raccoon butterfly, have a blue hippo, yellow tang, royal gramma, cinnamon clown, blue spotted gobie, 2 peppermint shrimp, 2 cleaner shrimp, and a chocolate chip star. lr 127 lbs. i have tryed malachite green several times and have now been advised to go with kent rx p with poly ox. my water conditions are near perfect with the only issue being phosfates slightly readable. any and all suggestions would be welcome. thanks to all of you and great site.

 

[lion_crazz]

I would remove all the fish to a separate quarantine tank and perform hyposalinity, while leaving the display tank fishless for 6 weeks.
Everything about the hyposalinity procedure are detailed above in Beth's FAQ.

 

[lion_crazz]

Like I stated in the other thread, the best way to get rid of ich is hyposalinity with a refractometer in a tank with no rock or inverts or coral and then proceeding to leave the display tank fishless for 6 weeks so that all the parasites die due to not having a host.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
Like I stated in the other thread, the best way to get rid of ich is hyposalinity with a refractometer in a tank with no rock or inverts or coral and then proceeding to leave the display tank fishless for 6 weeks so that all the parasites die due to not having a host.
Yes, this is the only way to rid your tank of ich.

 

[lion_crazz]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
Yes, this is the only way to rid your tank of ich.
Unless of course you dose your tank with copper, but this is definitely something you do not want to do.
Hyposalinity is your best bet at keeping your fish healthy and alive and of definitely getting rid of ich.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
Unless of course you dose your tank with copper, but this is definitely something you do not want to do.
Hyposalinity is your best bet at keeping your fish healthy and alive and of definitely getting rid of ich.
You are very correct Lion_crazz, hypo and copper are the only two ways to rid a tank of ich.

 

[colbalt60]

thanks to you both and later today i will get a qt setup and running. with my current population how large of a qt should i get. inhabitants are as follows.
blue hippo
yellow tang
royal gramma
cinnamon clown
blue spotted goby
2 peppermint shrimp
2 cleaner shrimp
chocolate chip star
127 lbs lr
i have the room for a 55 if you think it best

 

[lion_crazz]

With just 4 fish, you do not need a whole 55. A 30 gallon tank would suffice just fine. The only things you will be removing are the 5 fish. Everything else stays in the display for 6 weeks without fish.
While you are at the store, get a large sponge that you would put in a filter. You will use this to put from your display to your quarantine to transfer bacteria.

 

[colbalt60]

ok so a 30 it is will i need to use a protein skimmer in both tanks still or just the qt?

 

[lion_crazz]

No, you don't even really need to set-up a skimmer on the QT. Here is what you do need:
-30 gallon tank
-some sort of cheap light so that you can see the fish and be able to tell when the ich drops off
-power filter (I would look into getting a biowheel filter, something like a penguin 280).
-perhaps a small powerhead that pushes 100-150 gph
-large sponge that would go inside a filter or wet/dry
-refractometer, so that you are definitely accurately measuring SG (no one sells them cheaper than SWF.com)
-good pH, kH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits
-enough salt so that you can do a water change if your levels begin to rise
-dkH/alkalinity buffer in case you see a fall in your pH - something common with hyposalinity
While your fish are in QT, leave the display running as normal, and feed the critters in the display every 4 or 5 days to keep everything alive and well.

 

[colbalt60]

im leaving now to get a 30 combo , my refractometer is on its way from swf , i also took an extra prefilter sponge and tossed it in my dt so i can gain the benefical bacteria. i will get this setup here in the next hour.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by colbalt60
im leaving now to get a 30 combo , my refractometer is on its way from swf , i also took an extra prefilter sponge and tossed it in my dt so i can gain the benefical bacteria. i will get this setup here in the next hour.
Sounds good, keep us posted!

 

[ophiura]

I definitely agree on the above
And it might go unstated, but IMO, you also then have to fully QT any futher fish you wish to introduce to the tank, again using a full course of hypo.
**Edit for clarity - **IMO** if you wish to be SURE you have CERTAINLY eliminated this parasite from the tank, then IMO you want to fully QT with hypo any fish, and QT separately any live rock, corals, inverts going in....otherwise there will always be the risk (however slight) of another outbreak. But it is theory versus practice in many ways...and again, it is my opinion on a highly debated issue. More below

***

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by ophiura
I definitely agree on the above

And it might go unstated, but IMO, you also then have to fully QT any futher fish you wish to introduce to the tank, again using a full course of hypo.
I am not sure I read you correctly Ophiura, but I wouldn't hypo a fish that isn't sick, maybe I misread. I definately agree that all future purchases should be quarentined for 3-4 weeks, this includes corals etc. Ich can not host these, but often times dormant ich can come in on them. Again, any and all questions that you may have, please feel free to ask!

 

[ophiura]

I think the only way you could be SURE that any new fish don't have ick would be to do a course of hypo or copper on them. I don't necessarily do that...but I think for some fish that have a high propensity (such as tangs) for things like ick? I would definitely do this. It is a different school of thought. And I think that the poster should be aware of this. The only FOR SURE WAY to eliminate this parasite from your display tank, **IMO**, is to treat for it.
Many would also say that all live rock, corals, inverts, etc should also be isolated in a separate QT system.
When I worked at a public aquarium (and indeed it is true of many LFS), the holding or QT tanks are commonly treated with various medications (copper, prazi) because it was far easier, cheaper, etc to treat a 50g tank than a 50,000g tank.
For many it is safer than assuming that if the fish does not show signs of disease in 4 weeks that it is fine. In this case you best have eyes like a hawk and assume every speck is a problem, IMO. Treating eliminates with a high degree of confidence that the fish is not a carrier of something like ick. If I had a very valuable display tank, I would absolutely positively treat them. If I had an easier to manage fish only, and was adding something hardy, I may not.
There are different methods of QTing fish for sure and it is not something everyone agrees on. But, IMO, you can keep a fish in QT for 4 weeks and it still may introduce something to the tank so you can't be REALLY REALLY sure you have eliminated the parasite for good unless all incoming stock is QTd (in the case of LR, corals) and fish, IMO, treated with copper or hypo.
Don't get me wrong, this sort of "standard" QT is a great thing to do. It can give fish some "down time" to get particular care, start feeding, and not be beaten by territorial established fish in the display tank. But it would be of interest to me to know how many people did this, then put them in the tank and bam! Ick.
Believe me, not everyone agrees.

For sure not everyone agrees.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by ophiura
I think the only way you could be SURE that any new fish don't have ick would be to do a course of hypo or copper on them. I don't necessarily do that...but I think for some fish that have a high propensity (such as tangs) for things like ick? I would definitely do this. It is a different school of thought. And I think that the poster should be aware of this. The only FOR SURE WAY to eliminate this parasite from your display tank, **IMO**, is to treat for it.
Many would also say that all live rock, corals, inverts, etc should also be isolated in a separate QT system.
When I worked at a public aquarium (and indeed it is true of many LFS), the holding or QT tanks are commonly treated with various medications (copper, prazi) because it was far easier, cheaper, etc to treat a 50g tank than a 50,000g tank.
For many it is safer than assuming that if the fish does not show signs of disease in 4 weeks that it is fine. In this case you best have eyes like a hawk and assume every speck is a problem, IMO. Treating eliminates with a high degree of confidence that the fish is not a carrier of something like ick. If I had a very valuable display tank, I would absolutely positively treat them. If I had an easier to manage fish only, and was adding something hardy, I may not.
There are different methods of QTing fish for sure and it is not something everyone agrees on. But, IMO, you can keep a fish in QT for 4 weeks and it still may introduce something to the tank so you can't be REALLY REALLY sure you have eliminated the parasite for good unless all incoming stock is QTd (in the case of LR, corals) and fish, IMO, treated with copper or hypo.
Don't get me wrong, this sort of "standard" QT is a great thing to do. It can give fish some "down time" to get particular care, start feeding, and not be beaten by territorial established fish in the display tank. But it would be of interest to me to know how many people did this, then put them in the tank and bam! Ick.
Believe me, not everyone agrees.

For sure not everyone agrees.
I very much respect your opinion Ophiura and don't doubt you. I have read from another mod on here not to treat a fish that is not sick. I know you have alot of experience and trust it fully. I will back down and say that your way is the way to go.

 

[ophiura]

No, no...it is not always the way to go. It is my opinion on the subject, and that is what these boards are about

I have a very BROAD range of thoughts on QTing things. And much of it depends on the situation, and how much I have on the line

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by ophiura
No, no...it is not always the way to go. It is my opinion on the subject, and that is what these boards are about

I have a very BROAD range of thoughts on QTing things. And much of it depends on the situation, and how much I have on the line

LOL gotcha ophiura, a pleasure as always to hear your thoughts!

In this case, I was not off base with the qting for 3-4 weeks of all new inhabitants then?

 

[ophiura]

I would aim for a month, personally,...but if there is a treatment going on, then it may add time.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by ophiura
I would aim for a month, personally,...but if there is a treatment going on, then it may add time.
Nice, Ophiura, your making me doubt myself, something that doesn't normally happen. LOL ok, shoot for 4 weeks