ich Problem help

mojohoojo

Member
Hi all,
My previous post regards to my sebae. Alls well and things re looking good. Now i have a question/problem......All my water parameter are close to perfect (as mention in my previous post), now i notice that my Clowns are getting ich. Why does this happen? i never got this problem the last 10 months i started Saltwater Aquarium. Could this means the LR carries this disease?! what do i need to change or do to get rid of this in my tank?!
i am starting the formalin treatment now for the clownies.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by mojohoojo
http:///forum/post/2519037
Hi all,
My previous post regards to my sebae. Alls well and things re looking good. Now i have a question/problem......All my water parameter are close to perfect (as mention in my previous post), now i notice that my Clowns are getting ich. Why does this happen? i never got this problem the last 10 months i started Saltwater Aquarium. Could this means the LR carries this disease?! what do i need to change or do to get rid of this in my tank?!
i am starting the formalin treatment now for the clownies.
I am not familiar with your other posts. Ich is a parasite that must be introduced into the tank. It does not appear on it's own. Live rock cannot host the parasite, but parasites can certainly come into a tank on rock. You may want to post this in Disease and Treatment. We will walk you through the treatment. Formalin treats brooklynella and black ich. It is to be used as a dip ONLY.
 

nycbob

Active Member
if possible, take all of ur fish out and treated with copper in a qt tank. copper is lethal to inverts and corals, so it must be done separately. after 2-3 weeks after treatment, u can safely put the fish back.
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but nycbob is incorrect. If you treat (with either copper or hyposalinity) and return the fish 3 weeks later to the DT, the fish may become reinfected. I prefer to leave a DT without fish for 4-6 weeks to allow all of the parasites to die off from lack of a vertebrate host. Look in the sticky at the top of the Disease board for details on how to defeat this parasite.
 

fats71

Active Member
Fill a plastic container of choice with an appropriate source of freshwater, such as RO/DI filtered water. If you have no choice but to use tap water, be sure to dechorlinate it first.
To prevent unnecessary shock and stress, try to match the pH and temperature of the freshwater to that of the aquarium water the fish will be removed from.
To prevent ammonia from building up in the treatment water, add an ammonia eliminating product. AmQuel by Kordon is highly recommended for this purpose, and it is a dechlorinate as well.
Although an optional step, it is recommended that some type of antibiotic medication be added to the treatment water as well. Because fish will be confined in a small amount of water, probably with other fish, the freshwater will cause them to expel waste, which in turn will most likely foul up the water. A nitrofurazone based product works well to help protect the fish from being exposed to their own waste during the procedure.
Keep the water vigorously aerated during treatment. The simplest way to do this is to insert an air stone into the container.
Remove the fish from the infected aquarium and place them into the freshwater. For the best results fish should remain in the freshwater for a duration of 3 to 4 minutes. If any fish is showing signs of undue stress after a minute or two, remove it.
If when you initially put the fish in the freshwater they settle to the bottom on their sides and do not move about, don't worry, they usually upright themselves and start moving around within about the first minute. If concerned you can nudge them a little bit to stimulate movement, and if any fish looks to be overly stressed, remove it.
I swiped this from my pal burt over on my LFS forum
 

fats71

Active Member
I also have been reading none stop about ick.
I have read all tanks have ick in them its just a matter of you having a healthy happy fish etc etc in the tank to fight it off. You will never get rid off ick completely according to top scientist but then again I just read and do not know this to be gospel.
But as stated the people who study this stuff say its always going to be there.
 

nicetry

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2519147
I also have been reading none stop about ick.
I have read all tanks have ick in them its just a matter of you having a healthy happy fish etc etc in the tank to fight it off. You will never get rid off ick completely according to top scientist but then again I just read and do not know this to be gospel.
But as stated the people who study this stuff say its always going to be there.

Actually, most of the people who study fish disease will tell you that ich is NOT always present in a tank, and that it is entirely possible to have a system free from parasites.
 

fats71

Active Member
Originally Posted by nicetry
http:///forum/post/2519175
it is entirely possible to have a system free from parasites.

Over the past few decades, the science of saltwater aquaria has increased by leaps and bounds. In spite of the new knowledge, many of the old myths which arose during the years of experimentation are still professed by some as facts. Here are some of the most popular myths which are still in circulation. Any fish tank reef or fresh will have some sort of ich present

Since the begining of time, successfully keeping a saltwater aquarium has seemed a total mystery to a vast majority of people. Over the past few decades, the science of saltwater aquaria has increased by leaps and bounds. In spite of the new knowledge, many of the old myths which arose during the years of experimentation are still professed by some as facts. Here are some of the most popular myths which are still in circulation:
1. It takes at least 6 weeks to cycle a saltwater aquarium
MYTH:
It takes 6 weeks to cycle (establish the biological filter) a new saltwater aquarium.
FACT:
The original method used for cycling a tank consisted of putting a fish or two in a new tank, then waiting up to 6 weeks for the nitrobacter and nitrosoma bacteria to form and grow. It is now known that there are a number of methods which can cycle a tank in as little as one day.
Cycling with Live Rock
Cycling with Live Sand
Cycling with Bacterial Additives
2. Water changes are the only way to reduce nitrates in a saltwater aquarium
MYTH:
Water changes are the only way to reduce nitrates which are the end product of the nitrification process in a saltwater aquarium.
FACT:
There are a number of methods which can be used to reduce or even prevent nitrate build up without performing a water change.
Denitrator Units
Mangroves
Some types of Algae
Live Rock in conjunction with a Berlin Filtration System
Live Sand in conjunction with a Jaubert/Plenum System
Nitrate Absorbing Products
3. The ideal reef tank temperature is between 76° and 78° Fahrenheit.
MYTH:
The ideal reef tank temperature is between 76° and 78° Fahrenheit.
FACT:
The water temperatures of most of the reefs where your corals came from are a lot higher than 78° F. Read about it in: How High is Too High?
4. Tangs (Surgeonfish) are very sensitive to nitrates.
MYTH:
Tangs (Surgeonfish) are more sensitive to nitrates than other fish.
FACT:
Surgeonfish are no more sensitive to nitrates than any other species. Tangs have endured nitrate levels of hundreds of ppm for extended periods of time with no ill affects.
5. Massive water changes are harmful to saltwater fish and invertebrates.
MYTH:
Massive water changes to quickly reduce nitrates and other toxins are harmful to saltwater fish and invertebrates.
FACT:
While a rapid change in salinity, temperature or pH can be harmful to fish and invertebrates, a rapid reduction in nitrates does not adversely affect them.
6. Coral Banded Shrimp kill fish.
MYTH:
Coral Banded Shrimp kill fish.
FACT:
The Coral Banded Shrimp is a scavenger as well as a parasite picker, and may attack other shrimp, but will not normally attack fish. Many people who find their Coral Banded Shrimp consuming a dead fish or invertebrate assume that it was killed by the shrimp. However the shrimp is just doing what it does for a living: Scavenging.
7. All LFS people are knowledgeable and always give you good advice.
MYTH:
You can depend on the people in your LFS to be knowledgeable and to give you good advice.
FACT:
There are a great number of LFS owners/employees who are well experienced in saltwater aquariums and will give you good advice. However a majority of them (usually younger workers) have little or no knowledge or experience in this subject which requires time to learn.
8. Bio-Balls are nitrate factories.
MYTH: Bio-Balls or wet/dry filters create nitrates in a saltwater aquarium.
FACT: Bio-Balls and wet/dry filter material can trap detritus and other tank debris which break down and eventually create nitrates. If the Bio-Balls are cleaned regulary, they don't create any more nitrates than a substrate with the same materials in it.
Bio-Balls Don't Go Bad, They Just Get Dirty!
Stan & Debbie Hauter,
These two are extremely well known as I am sure you know. Along with bob fenner and many others.
I am in no way a scientist and thinking about spelling the word makes my head hurt so I am taking the peoples advice that actually study it get paid thhe big bucks to lecture on it and live eat and breath it such as the people stated above.
I do not know your source in which you are seeing that it can be completely removed from a tank but I would like to read it as well as I like to hear both sides then make a educated decissssion on what is right and wrong.
 

nicetry

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2519207
Stan & Debbie Hauter,
These two are extremely well known as I am sure you know. Along with bob fenner and many others.
I am in no way a scientist and thinking about spelling the word makes my head hurt so I am taking the peoples advice that actually study it get paid thhe big bucks to lecture on it and live eat and breath it such as the people stated above.
I do not know your source in which you are seeing that it can be completely removed from a tank but I would like to read it as well as I like to hear both sides then make a educated decissssion on what is right and wrong.
The Hauters were in the fish collecting business for several years and more recently ran the fish department at a large pet store. Hardly a scientific backround. I'm very familiar with Fenner and don't recall reading that ich is present in all systems. Can you link this for me?
I could provide several links to sources that dispute this but the board won't allow them.
 

fats71

Active Member
Originally Posted by nicetry
http:///forum/post/2519253
The Hauters were in the fish collecting business for several years and more recently ran the fish department at a large pet store. Hardly a scientific backround. I'm very familiar with Fenner and don't recall reading that ich is present in all systems. Can you link this for me?
I could provide several links to sources that dispute this but the board won't allow them.

The forums prohibit me from posting his site but ill do this
check out something called wey web media
I was at his lecture last satuday in saint louis annd it was stated three times during hhis lecture.
 

nycbob

Active Member
i dont think i am wrong. copper is very different from hypo. the period the ick parasites can live under copper medication is very short. when the ick parasites fall off the fish host after 7 days, the ick will die once its in contact with copper medication. the copper medication is not effective during the 1st 7 days only when the parasites r on the fishes body. there is almost no chance of reintroducing the ick parasites back into the dt after 3 weeks.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2519462
The forums prohibit me from posting his site but ill do this
check out something called wey web media
I was at his lecture last satuday in saint louis annd it was stated three times during hhis lecture.
Are you sure that you don't mean wet rather than wey? That is Bob Fenners site and he too states that ich is a parasite with a know life cycle. Ich is NOT in all systems. It must be introduced. All of the fish have to be treated. Again, to the OP, please post in Disease and Treatment so that we can walk you through this.
 

fats71

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2519562
Are you sure that you don't mean wet rather than wey? That is Bob Fenners site and he too states that ich is a parasite with a know life cycle. Ich is NOT in all systems. It must be introduced. All of the fish have to be treated. Again, to the OP, please post in Disease and Treatment so that we can walk you through this.
I did not wanna spell it all out as we are not supposed to doo that so I figured someone would get it lol.
Anyway, all fish in the wild have been introduced to it and our LR etcc have come from the wild while being treated their is only two things I have found to be reef safe LR,LS vert safe as a treatment for ich where you no longer need a QT but it is 50 dollars a bottle and you get two treatments out of it is the one for a 75 gal tank. They after a phone call are going to make a smaller bottle blue the regular one is yellow but thhe blue will be made for such tanks as small as 35 gal and will cost less.
All I know is what i have read. I am no scientist and was just postinng some things such as myths about cycling a tank etc that some people still will never belive.
I spent 12 hours with fennner asking tons of questions drank a few beers with him after the lecture etc and will be working perhaps on his site to managee his database a bit. I will ask him in the near future if I misunderstood him which is possible (13 beers im liable to hear im the president and I have two minutes to figure out world peace and re-write a sodoku booklet with all the answers in latin...
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Anyway, all fish in the wild have been introduced to it and our LR etcc have come from the wild while being treated their is only two things I have found to be reef safe LR,LS vert safe as a treatment for ich where you no longer need a QT but it is 50 dollars a bottle and you get two treatments out of it is the one for a 75 gal tank. They after a phone call are going to make a smaller bottle blue the regular one is yellow but thhe blue will be made for such tanks as small as 35 gal and will cost less.
There is a big difference between fish in the wild and fish in an enclosed system with ich. I am not sure what you mean by the rest of this post. There is no bottled "magic cure" for ich in a system. There are only two things that kill ich, they are hyposalinity and copper. Neither of them can be done in the presents of inverts or LR. A quarantine tank is essential for treatment and to keep the parasites from entering the display in the first place. Read it again without the beer goggles on
 

fats71

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2519713
There is a big difference between fish in the wild and fish in an enclosed system with ich. I am not sure what you mean by the rest of this post. There is no bottled "magic cure" for ich in a system. There are only two things that kill ich, they are hyposalinity and copper. Neither of them can be done in the presents of inverts or LR. A quarantine tank is essential for treatment and to keep the parasites from entering the display in the first place. Read it again without the beer goggles on

Sorry if it is not legiable I had a few shots of whiskey prior while building my own skimmer with my buddy.
 

mojohoojo

Member
Thanks guys....my Clownies starting to recover they appetite is back to normal and swimming about....i'll keep them for few more days in the quaratine tank until they are back to full health!
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by mojohoojo
http:///forum/post/2520081
Thanks guys....my Clownies starting to recover they appetite is back to normal and swimming about....i'll keep them for few more days in the quaratine tank until they are back to full health!
Ich does not just go away.
 
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