Ich

[firedave]

About a week ago I think I made to mistake of adding to many inhabitants at the same time. I added three fish, some inverts, and a few pieces of cured live rock. My Blue Tang seem to get extremely stressed out and now is covered with what I guess to be Ich. Small white spots all over the fish. There has been no scratching but the white dots are very prevelant. One of the additions was a cleaner shrimp. The Tang seems to stay next to the shrimp for his services. My other inhabitants dont seem to have any symtoms. I have stepped up water changes. I was doing 10 gal each week. Last night I did 20 gals in hopes to clean up the water quality. I guess it goes with out say that I do not have a quarentine tank. Is it possible for the tang to recover without putting a quarentine tank together by improving water quality and reducing stress factors.
My tank is a 90 gall reef tank so copper meds wont work. Any suggestions would be great.

 

[beth]

What are your water readings? What size tank do you have? Any live rock?

 

[firedave]

Beth, thanks for your reply. I have a 90 gal tank. I have a few pieces of live rock. Readings of amonia and nitrite seem ok. PH seems a little low 8.0. Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

 

[wintrmte]

Dave,
We too are having the *exact* same problem as you.
Our tang has developed white spots as well.. Our water readings are A-OK as well.
We too have a fish / reef setup so we cannot treat him. Our QT is not ready for use yet, so, we're in a pickle as well.

 

[beth]

Is this a relatively new tank? You say you have only a few pieces of live rock. Sounds like you have a few inverts in the tank, but do you have corals, etc? What are your inhabitants.
This ick situation will not go away. You have introduced it to your tank via the new addition of fish. You need to treat it. Water changes aren't going to get rid of it. Ich is a parasite and will continue to degrade fish healthy regardless of water changes.
If all you have in that tank is a few pieces of live rock and some shrimp, you can do hyposalinity in the main tank by removing the LR and keeping it going in a Rubbermaid container with a good powerhead. Ask the LFS to hold your inverts for you. With only the fish in the tank, you can safely do hyposalinity. Go to the local hardware store and pick up some pieces of PVC for hiding places for the fish in the "bare" tank.
Alternatively, you can do as Trojan suggested and set up a quarantine tank. If you are going to have live rock and a reef, that is basically a necessity.
You should have a refractometer to do hyposalinity. I consider this little instrument a necessary piece of equipment for all hobbyists. You can get them for around $50 on ----. If you can not get a refractometer, then go with a quality glass hydrometer. Absolutely NO swing-arm type hydrometer.
Take a look at the FAQ Thread at the top of this forum. There is info there on how to set up a QT. The 2nd topic provides info on the hyposalinity procedure.

 

[firedave]

Thanks for your replies. My tank is going on one year. However I got it from a friend who had it set up in him home for three years. I do not have any live corals. I dont have sufficient lighting to support proper care and growth. Based on advice given here is my plan. Let me know what you think. I think the best approach is to purchase a new QT. Place the inverts which include various crabs, feather dusters, flame scallop, starfish, and anemones into the new QT. Also remove the small pieces of live rock and place them in the QT. Take water from main tank to fill QT. along with a couple of cups of gravel. Follow instructions for hyposalinity process in main tank. My only concern is with practically no biological filtration will the inverts and live rock be ok? I understand that the QT tank will have ich present with this set up. I have read that ich will die off without host fish. Is is possible for it to survive on the items I will have in the QT? Any further suggestions or recomendations you could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for you help.

 

[firedave]

Do I need to remove all of these from the main tank. I know about the crabs, but what about feather dusters, flame scallop, starfish, and anemones. Are all sensative to salinity changes?

 

[firedave]

I could do that. However, would I have to put all of the fish in that tank? The Blue tang has ich the worst, but I see It now on a couple of other fish. I don't see how all of the fish could survive in a non cycled tank. Especially when it is going to be a much smaller environment. If I was only to put the Tang in there, wouldn't he/she be reinfected when introduced back to main tank. Wouldn't the ich still be present even in smaller amounts in the large tank amongst the other fish?

 

[firedave]

The Tang is pretty well covered with Ich. I dont know how long I can wait till he is too far along. I was thinking if I got the QT tonight or tomorrow, I could immediately begin treatment after removing inverts. Will the ich infect any inverts or live rock?

 

[beth]

Either way it is a dilemma. However, with LR in the QT with other inverts, and water from the main tank used for QT, you will have essentially a good cycle there….better than putting fish in a completely uncycled tank. Do get a filter going in the QT.
What lighting are you using for anemones?

 

[firedave]

Well I began the process. I set up QT tank and have moved all of the inverts and live rock. I started to bring salinity down. Does the ich begin to die now or does it have to be down to 1.009 before the irradication can begin? The pet shop said that the QT tank would be ok without any filters. I have it set up with a power head and a heater. Will my small amount of live rock be ok as a bio filter?

 

[beth]

Ick has a life cycle of approx. 23 days during which time the parasite undergoes 3 stages. In the tomite [free-swimming] stage, the parasite is infectious to fish. During this stage, the tomite’s goal is to find a host fish, or die trying. After they attach to the gills or body of a fish, they develop into the second stage, the parasitic trophont. During this stage they burrow into the fish, feeding on it’s tissues, which can cause considerable damage and even result in a secondary bacterial infection on the infected fish. Once well fed the trophonts stop feeding and develop cystic coverings. This becomes the inactive tomont stage and during this final stage the cysts may stay trapped in the mucus of the fish, or fall off and sit on the bottom of the aquarium substrate, rocks, etc. Within 6 to 10 days hundreds of new tomites emerge looking for fish hosts and the cycle begins all over again, and again and again until something is done about it. Once ick is an active presence in the aquaria, having infested fish, it must be irradiated or it will always pose a threat to fish, and to any new fish introduced. The standard treatment for Ick is copper sulfate and hyposalinity. Hyposalinity is preferred because it is equally as effective wo the toxic effects of copper.
By lowering the salinity, you will also be lowering the osmotic pressure of the water. The parasites NEED high osmotic pressure to convert saline water into freshwater. All marine animals need freshwater as we do [including parasites]. Reduce this necessary pressure and the ich will die. However, the ich will only be effected by the hypo conditions once the parasite detaches from the fish [as a part of its life cycle].
While doing this procedure, also offer your fish garlic soaked food.

 

[firedave]

Beth and Trojan, yesterday I completed the reduction of salinity down to the appropriate level. I lost a puffer fish during the process. However the fish covered the most, the blue tang looks like it is in total recovery. There is only a few white spots left. More importantly the fish has returned to his old habits. Swimming around the tank with vigor. Is it possible for the Ich to have been killed so quickly? Is this just a part of the life cycle of the parasite? I would not of thought that the fish would recover so quickly. What are your thoughts?

 

[firedave]

It is amazing. The tank looks great all inhabitants look great and there does not seem to be any ich signs at all. I am shocked at the recovery of my tang. Two weeks to go. What a lesson to learn. I advise all who read this posting to head warnings...don't make the same mistake I did. Get a QT and use it. If you dont, it is just a matter of time before disaster strikes. My thanks to all who shared their wisdom.