Ick Disappeared!?

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irenicus

Guest
Just when I was about to start treatment, the ick has started to disappear dramatically. Now none of my fish have it at all. Now they were perfectly healthy before, but got stressed out from moving. A day later they developed ick and 2 days later the Ick has completely disappeared. My question is, can fish get rid of Ick by themselves if they are very healthy? Do fish get temporary scars from the ick spots. My powder blue tang seems to have blue little bump scars from where the ick was. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Thank You,
:confused:
 

timsedwards

Active Member
Hi Irenicus,
Im sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but it has not gone, it is in the substrate and will return twice as bad.
If you read up on the life cycle of Ich (which you should in order to understand it), it goes into the substrate to muliply. Carry on the dosing if that is what you have chosen.
What treatment were you going to use?
If i had a dollor for every time someone thought Ich had gone...:(
Tim.
 
I

irenicus

Guest
Does that happen 100 % of the time. Is it a certainty it will come back twice as bad?
I was going to try the RXP and Poly X.
What is the timeframe of the Ick coming back?
 

timsedwards

Active Member
normally within a couple of days, ask beth and terry to be sure.
Well have you thought of hypo and qt? that is always beter. that formulae worked for me in short term but evidently not in long term.
Good luck,
Tim.
 
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irenicus

Guest
I'd like to start a quarantine, but I do not have enough room for all the fish. Would I just qt the fish with ick. There are only 2 that have shown any symptoms.
 

timsedwards

Active Member
Hi again,
I think beth would be better helping you here, but to quaranteen all of the fish seems a bit contradictory if you think about it! What you need to do is put them all in the QT and perform hyposalinity. The instructions to which are below, courtesy of Beth:
Below are the procedures for hypo. All fish exposed to ich must be treated whether they are showing symptoms or not. Ich may be deposited on LR or sand, but they will not live there indefinately. In the absense of a fish host, ich will die off within 3-4 wks.
Ich Info and Hypo Proceedure:
Ick has a life cycle of approx. 23 days during which time the parasite undergoes 3 stages. In the tomite [free-swimming] stage [no, you can not see it with the ----- eye], the parasite is infectious to fish. During this stage, the tomite's goal is to find a host fish, or die trying. After they attach to the gills or body of a fish, they develop into the second stage, the parasitic trophont. During this stage they burrow into the fish, feeding on it's tissues, which can cause considerable damage and even result in a secondary bacterial infection on the infected fish. This stage is the only time that you can actually see the parasites [on the fish]. Once well fed the trophonts stop feeding and develop cystic coverings. This becomes the inactive tomont stage and during this final stage the cysts may stay trapped in the tissues of the fish, or fall off and sit on the bottom of the aquarium or on rocks, etc. Within 6 to 10 days hundreds of new tomites emerge looking for fish hosts and the cycle begins all over again, and again and again until something is done about it. Once ick is an active presence in the aquaria, having infested fish, it must be irradiated or it will always pose a threat to fish, and to any new fish introduced. The only time this parasite is vulnerable is during their free swimming stage. Only in the free-swimming stage is any kind of treatments effective.
Hyposalinity is Osmotic Shock Therapy [OST]. No, your fish aren't subjected to the shock, but ick parasites are. Essentially, O.S.T. simply places the infectors [ich] in an environment in which they cannot survive while the host, (or infected fish) can. This remedy WILL NOT work in reef systems or invert tanks as it incorporates lowering the salinity of the entire system to 1.009 SG---this SG/salinity being too low for inverts, LR or LS.
The method of lowering salinity/SG is simple: Over the course of 48-hrs, salt water in the tank is replaced with fresh RO or DI water in small increments until a SG of 1.009 is achieved. Maintain pH, as pH tends to lower in hypo-saline water, and you need to maintain same pH. Watch for pH, especially at night. If you are not using a refractometer which gives the most precise readings, then try using 2-brands of quality hydrometers to make sure that you get an accurate reading. The SG MUST be dropped to 1.009, nothing above that will do. As for the beneficial microbes you are working to establish in your hospital, NOT TO WORRY! The bacteria colony will survive, the fish will be more than fine; but the Ich will not survive. By lowering the salinity, you will also be lowering the osmotic pressure of the water. The parasites NEED high osmotic pressure to convert saline water into freshwater. All marine animals need freshwater as we do [parasites are considered marine animals as well, BTW]. They just convert it differently, usually via their tissues. Reduce this necessary pressure and the ich will die. As a higher life form, the fish will do fine with this treatment. [My preference for this treatment of ick over copper is toxicity. Hypo has no ill effects on fish during or after treatment, whereas copper is a toxin, and could have enduring negative effects on fish even following a successful treatment.
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Maintain the 1.009 SG in the tank for 3 wks AFTER no visible signs of ick are present with your fish. After that time, you can slowly, over the course of several days, raise the SG back to normal levels in the hospital. Take longer raising then you did lowering the SG. Leave the fish in the hospital for 4-5 days after returning the SG to normal levels before moving them back home.
In the meantime, feed your fish garlic soaked food several times a week, and, if you can get either Zoe or Zoecon, alternate feeding your fish with these excellent vitamin supplements. No need to feed with vits and the garlic at same time. MORE is not better either with fish meds, additives or supplements. Garlic is a natural parasite repellent for ick. It also has mild antibiotic qualities as well as being an immune booster. No, don't add tabs to water. use fresh crushed garlic or garlic extract to soak the food--don't add the garlic to the water!
In the absence of any fish in your main tank, the ick will die off there. Ick must have a host fish to survive. So don't add new fish to your main tank while you're treating your sick fish
Hope this helps,
Tim.
 
I

irenicus

Guest
So i need to stuff all my fish into a 20 gallon or something for a month. Even if they are not sick. Don't some fish naturally fight ick if they are healthy, thus eventually ending the problem. I have some big fish that won't like to be cramped. Why can't uninfected fish be left in there if they are not having an ick problem?
 

carrie1429

Active Member
Even if fish do not show signs of ich they probably still have it. Once ich infects your tank eventually all the fish will get it even if you remove the fish that have spots. You could try to only remove the fish that appear to have it but chances are all the other fish are already infected. :(
 

timsedwards

Active Member
If there is some ich on the fish, guaranteed there is some also in the tank (substrate).
Just sticking them in the QT when they have Ich wont be enough, i really suggest hyposalinity if you have the facilities. If not, let us know and we will look at alternatives.
All the best,
Tim.
 
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irenicus

Guest
So I'll need to buy a refactometer... i can get one of those online for 45... does that sound correct...
Then I'll need a QT tank big enough to accomodate a SFE, Lionfish, DF Puffer, Pork Puffer, Halequin Tusk, Lunare Wrasse, Powder Blue Tang and Emperor Angel. They are in their small sizes, what size qt tank do you suggest? A couple 20's?? Then let the fishless tank go untreated for 3-4 weeks while the ick goes away?
 

timsedwards

Active Member
Hi,
Yes that sounds about right, sadly cant post links here but if you email me I can tell you where to get one. But, check with beth first that it is good enough.
Well as big as you can afford is often good (within reason) just remember that water volume increase will mean larger water changes for things like Hypo.
Yes leave the main tank fishless for about that time and the parasite will have no host.
Although I am giving information, i am only regurgitating what Beth and Terry have told me, so use me as a guide but always check with them first, they are the experts and they will correct me where I have misinformed you.
Best of luck,
Tim.
 
I

irenicus

Guest
Well, Day 3, and no ick. I bought a refractometer online and should arrive within a couple days. This weekend i will clean out an old 29 FW tank and convert to a hospital tank. Getting ready in case the storms comes in. Any other advice?
 

timsedwards

Active Member
HI again,
Are you going to let the tank cycle? If not, you will have to do daily water changes if you are going to put a fish in there.
Just read the FAQ's at the top of this forum carefully, that will tell you everything you need to know about setting up the HT.
Best of luck,
Tim.
 

wrassecal

Active Member

Originally posted by Irenicus
Does that happen 100 % of the time. Is it a certainty it will come back twice as bad?
I was going to try the RXP and Poly X.
What is the timeframe of the Ick coming back?

ICH is a very confusing thing...lot's of science that backs up certain cures like copper and hyposalinity ( neither of which can be used in a reef) lots of anecdotal evidence that non-copper like greenex and stop parasites will work....lots that it won't...lots that garlic will help fish repel the "attachment" stage or get rid of a "slight" case... lot's that it won't. We do know that the parasite has a 3 stage cycle and only 1 stage is when it is on the fish......will it come back 100% of the time....no...not unless it can be in one of the 2 other stages for over a year, which is not the case. I had a rusty angel die of ich in my tank well over a year ago and no other fish caught it......I now have a powder blue tang in the hospital tank where I'm starting hyposalinity ( that is IF I get it right) and measure the salinity/sg correctly. Some fish repel ich better than others, some are more sensitive to it. My powder blue is very sensitive to it and I knew that and thought I q'd it and watched it long enough. three weeks after adding it to the main tank, I now know I was obviously wrong. Which is worse? Pull a bunch of fish out of the tank and put them in a hospital tank because they "might" get it? Or leave them in, hope for the best and see if they show signs first? I have no idea. It can go either way. I hope whatever you decide to do that your fish are OK and I hope that mine are too.....I decided to hypo the tang and watch the others....but I'm ready just in case.....but then how do I really know when I'm not an expert if I'm even doing the best I can for them? Oh, sorry for the rant, just frustrated myself. To answer the question if I didn't, NO it will not come back 100% of the time. Will it come back in your tank? in your situation? No way to know. In any event, I would supplement their food with garlic and zoe vitamins....
EDIT: I noticed little bumps on my powder blue just before it broke out in full blown ich.
 
I

irenicus

Guest
Thanks... I hope the ick does not come back but I will be prepared just in case. Everyone is doing good now. But we'll see.
 

wrassecal

Active Member
Honestly with the bump things, if it were me I would take the powder blue out and treat it. That is how mine started. Which BTW, I just lost the fish.....didn't make it long enough to get the hypo going. :(
 
I

irenicus

Guest
Ok, they ick has returned. Noticed it tonight. Luckily I have a refractometer and i'm going to get a 10 gallon to start my tang and angel in hypo first. What kind of timeframe do I have with the ick?? Will they survive if I start the hypo 16 hours from now. Please advise.
 
I

irenicus

Guest
I've decided to take out the live rock and inverts out of my main tank and start hypo in there. All the fish would not fit in the qt tanks. The living sand will most likely die but the live rock I think will most likely seed it when i put it back in. I'm going to put my lr and inverts in a rubber maid tote and run a power head in there. That would suffice right? What should I drop my salinty to tonight. I believe it is 1.023-1.024 right now. Is there a detailed method of lowering the salinity? Or is it just pour freshwater in the tank and measure it. Doesn't it take a bit for the salinity to level out? I'm just looking for the most effective and efficient way to do this without shocking my fish, especially my emp angel and pb tang. Thank you.... All your help is appreciated.
 

timsedwards

Active Member
Hio Irenicus,
If you look above I have detailed the procedure for hypo.
It is best to lower it over 48 hours or so to minimalise the shook to the poor things. Yes, just do multiple water changes but replace with freshwater (heated of course). Make sure you keep the LR heated. Well it could take months to seed your LS again.
How are you measuring salinity?
All the best.
Tim.
 
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