Im old but still a newb (new build help for 29g Fowlr)

[meglomaniac]

First I would like to say hello to all and thank you for reading this. To give you some insight I had a 55g Fowlr about 10 years ago for a duration of about a year and a half. My experience with that tank was alot like being married. Many many ups and downs and worth very minute of it. I have forgotten so much about keeping a saltwater tank and can definately use some advice on this new build.
Currently I have a 29g brackish tank with some live plants, a single figure 8 puffer, 4 bumblebee gobies and 2 glass shrimp. While I do like this tank and the fish in it my interest is rapidly decreasing. After owning a saltwater tank and literally watching life be created and new organisms constantly blooming this fresh or brackish doesnt hold a candle to it. I am scared to say I am fully addicted to this hobby again and my wife isnt happy about it. What started as a 10g (my current snail breeding tank) was supposed to house some dwarf puffers. Those were too small and not good looking so I found a 29g on ebay with hood and filter for $40. Once I got the figure 8 puffer and started to upgrade him to low brackish 1.004 +/- .001 I realized I was halfway to a saltwater tank as far as equipment goes. LOL I wish I never had that thought pop into my head as this has really really sparked my interest for a salt tank again.
Currently I have a silicate based substrate (play sand), AQ50 and aquatech 20-40 HOB filters of which I cant stand. I have plenty of salt since keeping brackish tanks cost more in salt then salt tanks go figure. My mixing tub is 18g and I have a strong but noisy powerhead to mix my water and then pump it into my display tank. I also have test kits for the following, Ammonia,nitrite,nitrate. My plan is to rehome my fish then breakit all down and start from scratch and do it right the first time. I have already started to make my own Agrocrete using crushed coral. Budget is my biggest concern so this will be a slow process. My plan is as follows but would greatly appreciate input and experiences.
1. Use my 10 gallon tank of which has a marineland led hood and turn it into a sump. It would fit nicely under my 29 but I think I can fit a 20g sump if this 10g would not be enough.
2. Diy LED lighting in the future but will probobly be last. (currently have 2 normal fluerescent fixtures on top)
3. I would like as much of the tank as possible to not show any equipment (INSIDE) of it. One of my main reasons for a sump so I can put a heater in it. HOB Skimmer is possible as long as its cost effective and doesnt take up too much room inside display.
I have never used a sump and never drilled a tank but love DIY stuff so I am not intimidated by doing so. I do not plan on rushing this tank and would like to do it right. So is a 10g big enough for my sump and if so can someone help me design one? Not sure if i would just use it for a refugium or just a skimmer and heater. If it is too small and a 20g is needed for my setup I will buy a 20g from ***** or craigslist. I have approximately 26 inch width under my 29g but have a good 27-30 inches in height and about 12-14 inches depth underneath.
Can I cure my agrocrete in the tank since it will not have any fish in it? I am afraid of copper from toilet and also afraid someone will ninja my rock if I put it in a local stream. Sorry for so many questions on my first post but warn you I have way more to come lol. This community seems really good so this is where I am starting. Thanks for any input

 

[snakeblitz33]

Welcome to the forums. I hope you enjoy your stay.
I read through your monologue and I was able to glean some information from it... from what I have read,...
1. Do not use play sand as a substrate. The silicate in that sand causes major diatom blooms - your tank will forever be brown. Also, silicate based sand will also cut up some burrowing and sand sifting fishes gills, and some inverts. So, do not use the play sand. You can, however, go to your local fish store (LFS) or your local big box store and pick up a 30 pound bag of dry aragonite for about $20.
2. I agree that those HOB filters are not the best. A 10g tank is an ok size for a sump, but bigger is better. You can hide more equipment in it, you can increase your overall water volume, and you can potentially add a refugium to it. If you can and money allows,... invest in the larger sump, always. I can help you design it if you absolutely need help.
3. Look into a good quality protein skimmer - and something with a small footprint. an SC65 or and SC150 would be good choices for you. They are small, compact and are space saving cone skimmers which are the best in their class. I have one on my 20g nano and it keeps it pretty clean.
4. For your mechanical filtration, look into buying polyfil pads in the quilting department at your local Wal-Mart. They have a smaller micron count then blue and white filter floss - and you get a heck of a lot more for the money. Use scissors and cut them to fit. In the sump that we will design together, you can use these pads pretty easily.
5. The aragocrete is not something that I am fond of. You will end up curing it for about six months and throwing it away. The best method is in the toilet tank - copper should not be a major issue. If you have hard water, the inside of your copper pipes should be coated with calcium and magnesium anyways. Base rock is cheap - about $2 a pound. If you get some really porous base rock you can fill your tank up with as much rock as you need for about $16. That is probably less than what you paid for the portland cement and crushed coral. Keep in mind too that you will have to buy a small piece of live rock to get the necessary bacteria and organisms to populate your tank so that you can keep living creatures in the tank alive.
6. Above all, never quit learning. Never think your always right. Always take advice with a grain of salt - pun intended and not intended. Always listen to new perspectives and methods of doing things and then develop your own style and share it with the world... oh, and don't listen to Beaslbob.
Here is a link to a guide that gives really good advice - https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/388776/guides-for-new-hobbyists and may answer some of your questions that you have. Please, by all means, if you don't understand something... post it in this thread or you can private message (PM) me personally.

 

[flower]

Hello!
Welcome to the site! Snake answered the rest, so I just wanted to say hi.

 

[sweatervest13]

Hi and Welcome!!!
+1 with Snake. No play sand... Bigger sump... Use base rock... Nice skimmer... Use poly fil..
Check out the glass holes guys (just google) for research into drilling the tank.

 

[meglomaniac]

Thank you so much for the warm welcome and sorry for the massive wall of text lol. I may take you up on that offer for the sump. I will wait till ***** has the dollar per gallon sale again and buy a 20g. As for the sand $30 should be no problem. I will look into base rock and see what i can get locally or off the internet if its cheap enough. I am already on my 2nd batch of oystercrete so I might as well cure what I have made. Plus its allot of fun making it. Since it looks like the skimmer will be the most expensive thing would it be possible to set up the tank just using the sump and some powerheads? This would only be temporary so that I may start cycling the tank (assuming I get base rock and a peice of nice live rock). I spoke with my LFS from which I bought hte puffer and gobies and asked the manager to call me in hopes of getting some kind of store credit for them. Once they are gone I will start seriously planning the sump. 2 more quick questions untill things get along further
1. What GPH powerheads should I be looking for in my 29g Fowlr
2. Can I get a taller skimmer If i see a good deal on a used one on ebay (assuming it fits underneath my stand INSIDE the sump)
Thanks again for the info and I am still looking through those articles. The fowlr one was great.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meglomaniac http:///t/392926/im-old-but-still-a-newb-new-build-help-for-29g-fowlr#post_3492488
Thank you so much for the warm welcome and sorry for the massive wall of text lol. I may take you up on that offer for the sump. I will wait till ***** has the dollar per gallon sale again and buy a 20g. As for the sand $30 should be no problem. I will look into base rock and see what i can get locally or off the internet if its cheap enough. I am already on my 2nd batch of oystercrete so I might as well cure what I have made. Plus its allot of fun making it. Since it looks like the skimmer will be the most expensive thing would it be possible to set up the tank just using the sump and some powerheads? This would only be temporary so that I may start cycling the tank (assuming I get base rock and a peice of nice live rock). I spoke with my LFS from which I bought hte puffer and gobies and asked the manager to call me in hopes of getting some kind of store credit for them. Once they are gone I will start seriously planning the sump. 2 more quick questions untill things get along further
1. What GPH powerheads should I be looking for in my 29g Fowlr
2. Can I get a taller skimmer If i see a good deal on a used one on ebay (assuming it fits underneath my stand INSIDE the sump)
Thanks again for the info and I am still looking through those articles. The fowlr one was great.
2 X #1 Koralias
I wouldn't get my skimmer off of e-Bay...I have purchased two, and neither one worked. Be careful, if the skimmer is too tall you won't be able to get the cup off to empty it, so you need to make sure of clearence when you go for a taller skimmer. You won't need a skimmer right away, I would save up and get a nice nano Tunze skimmer for $160.00 ...it's hands down the best little skimmer I ever had in my 30g. and it is good for up to 60g so the extra water volume in the sump is taken into account.
You can set up your tank without any live rock at all. If you add macroalgae or purchase a reef starter kit of pods, you can get the tiny critters from there later on. The base rock will develope good bacteria on it by just being in the tank while it cycles.

 

[meglomaniac]

Looking at the Korilias and will be ordering them within the next 3 weeks. I went to my LFS again tonight and it looks like monday I will be speaking to the manager about trading my current livestock back in for store credit. I was looking at the aragonite sand and they have 2 different sizes both of which were $30 for 30 lbs. The one with the really fine grane seems more appealing but didnt know if there was any downside to it. I have also read the great article from snake on sumps and fuge. I will hold off on the skimmer until I am up and running and starting my cycle. The guy at the LFS also said he will sell me Live Rock for 7.99 /LB . When I call on monday they will also find out how much the base rock would be. Living in NY everything is overpriced so I doubt this will be much different. I am getting so anxious and excited to get started on this. Once I rehome my brackish fish I will tear the tank down and get started.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meglomaniac http:///t/392926/im-old-but-still-a-newb-new-build-help-for-29g-fowlr#post_3492618
Looking at the Korilias and will be ordering them within the next 3 weeks. I went to my LFS again tonight and it looks like monday I will be speaking to the manager about trading my current livestock back in for store credit. I was looking at the aragonite sand and they have 2 different sizes both of which were $30 for 30 lbs. The one with the really fine grane seems more appealing but didnt know if there was any downside to it. I have also read the great article from snake on sumps and fuge. I will hold off on the skimmer until I am up and running and starting my cycle. The guy at the LFS also said he will sell me Live Rock for 7.99 /LB . When I call on monday they will also find out how much the base rock would be. Living in NY everything is overpriced so I doubt this will be much different. I am getting so anxious and excited to get started on this. Once I rehome my brackish fish I will tear the tank down and get started.
Koralias are a good choice.
A larger grain size aragonite would be moderately better. It doesn't move around as much from the currents coming from powerheads and what-not. Also, sugar size oolite sand has a tendency to make the water cloudy every time something disturbs it. But, it's your choice. PetSmart, I believe has dray aragonite available for a little under $20 for a 30lb bag. I would suggest trying there first.
$7.99 a pound for live rock is reasonable, actually. Here in Louisiana it's the exact same price, actually. So, I think you are actually getting a pretty good deal.
Good luck, and remember... even take my advise with a grain of salt.

 

[red tiger]

+1 on Koralia's
I purchased three Koralia Evolution 1050 for $37 a piece and they move water pretty good!

 

[meglomaniac]

Ok so I went to ***** today and they were having there $1 per gallon sale. Since I can not fit a 30 inch footprint under my stand I have bought a 20G H tank with the 24 inch footprint. I also went to Lowes and HD looking for holesaw bits for glass and WOW $30-$45 PER BIT !!! One of my LFS do drill tanks but charge $20 per hole. Considering I would rather do an internal overflow on the 29G That will be alot of money just for holes. I was thinking of getting some cheap bits off ebay and going really slow with them. I would like to start building the sump since thats something I can do while waiting to find a good home for my current livestock. Lowes does carry glass and they have the glass cutting machine but all the plates are only 2.5 m thick. That seemed kind of thin for my baffles but you guys tell me what you think. Thanks again

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meglomaniac http:///t/392926/im-old-but-still-a-newb-new-build-help-for-29g-fowlr#post_3492705
Ok so I went to ***** today and they were having there $1 per gallon sale. Since I can not fit a 30 inch footprint under my stand I have bought a 20G H tank with the 24 inch footprint. I also went to Lowes and HD looking for holesaw bits for glass and WOW $30-$45 PER BIT !!! One of my LFS do drill tanks but charge $20 per hole. Considering I would rather do an internal overflow on the 29G That will be alot of money just for holes. I was thinking of getting some cheap bits off ebay and going really slow with them. I would like to start building the sump since thats something I can do while waiting to find a good home for my current livestock. Lowes does carry glass and they have the glass cutting machine but all the plates are only 2.5 m thick. That seemed kind of thin for my baffles but you guys tell me what you think. Thanks again
Baffles can be purchased at a glass shop...not a Lowes, Home Depot or Ace, their glass is made for windows.
To be honest, I went crazy trying to make baffles for my 20g high sump tank, and measured the glass wrong...I made the sump with thicker sealen...t the baffles didn't stay put...turned out I didn't even need baffles....I don't have any bubbles to bother with. I went with an in-tank refugium, and they make really good HOB ones too. So you may not even need baffles, and you will have more room in the sump if you don't.

 

[meglomaniac]

Dont I want to seperate the sections in the sump? Like an area for the pump, Skimmer,mechanical and maybe a refugium/deep sand area? Is it because the glass is made for windows that it cant handle the psi in the sump? what kind of glass should I ask for at the glass shop?

 

[snakeblitz33]

I use lowes glass. No problems so far in my 20g long sump.
Id say that it would be good if you did baffle your sump.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meglomaniac http:///t/392926/im-old-but-still-a-newb-new-build-help-for-29g-fowlr#post_3492710
Dont I want to seperate the sections in the sump? Like an area for the pump, Skimmer,mechanical and maybe a refugium/deep sand area? Is it because the glass is made for windows that it cant handle the psi in the sump? what kind of glass should I ask for at the glass shop?
I went in and told the guy what I wanted it for, and he showed me samples, I can't remember the number. 5 baffles cost me $30.00 Snake says he uses the hardware store glass. When I was building my sump, I asked about using regular glass and was told it couldn't handle the pressure...so now I'm not sure how to give advice on it, it's a personal choice I guess. I built two sumps in my life...Snake I'm sure has built more than me.