in general ?

[vezina345]

I see alot of information about lighting and flow but have not seen just a "general rule" list of amounts. I know that there are literally thousands of opinions and facts but I think a general starter list would be benficial.
I am slowly moving from FOWLER to adding some corals which is why I'm asking.
Here are some of my questions :
LIGHTING ( watts per gallon )
Mushrooms = WPG
Soft Corals = WPG
LPS = WPG
SPS = WPG
Anenomes = WPG
Clams = WPG
FLOW ( gallons per hour )
100 gallon tank = GPH we can do the math to adjust accordingly to our specific tank sizes.
*** Please no arguements over this ***
I know the variables involved so noone will be bad mouthed ( by me ) for their opinion. I think the more people with experience that respond to this will give a better generalization for newbies and myself to have an idea of what to they will need.
We all know there are LFS out there that will say that clams can live in the dark or that anenomes will do good under regular flourescent lights. This will hopefully help people make more informed decisions.
Thanks in advance.

 

[cdangel0]

Watts per gallon is a very out-dated mthod for determining lighting needs. You could put 10 NO 20w flourecent bulbs on a 29g tank and still not be abe to kep an anemone.
Penetration is more important, and for anemones, clams, SPS you really need to look at a minimum T5 light w/ individual reflectors to get as much light as possible to the bottom of your tank, otherwise everything will need to be placed so high up in the tank it would just look silly.
GPH - when dealing with SPS and LPS the GPH needs to be higher, I believe general rule of thumb is 30x turn-over but I could be wrong, it may be more then that - I personally ru somewhere around 50x turnover in my 92g mixed reef.

 

[vezina345]

I know that the penetrating power has alot to do with it as does the tank size and individual species to be place in a tank.
I guess what is the most frustrating is that I see books and websitess that give a 1-10 scale for lighting, water flow, etc, but they do not give a bench mark to start with. Does a 10 mean 10 watts per gallon and a 5 mean only 5?
We can include the K ratings also in this as I have read that the K is the penetrating power of the light ( if I'm wrong, that's why I'm asking ).
Just a simple guideline would be be helpful, ex. for mushroom corals you need X amount of wattage in general. This way if someone looks at this and sees that the beautiful clams they saw at the LFS needs in general X amount of light but they have less then they won't buy the clam.
P.S. thank you for replying, all info is helpful.

 

[jonthefishguy]

watts per gallon on a 24 to 27 inch deep tank is 3.5 watts per gallon to host most soft corals, maybe a clam (up high) and possibily few SPS like birdsnest. Anemones need med to bright light as well so you would need to place them HIGH. 5.5 watts per gallon can virtually hold everything but if you are going to host carnations and some sun star polyps, they pretty much need some dark areas as well. For a good amount of flow , your aquarium should turn over at least 10 X's per hour. The more current is not always better for every coral, but most love a good flow going across them. As the grow, they tend to block the amount of straight current. Your pump will still blow the samebut the branches or the size of the coral can hinder the amount of flow that blows across the tank. In my 240, I have 2 HD 70's. They both have head pressure of 1750 each. After the elbows and height, i sitll am getting 3,280 per hour. Pay attention to the head pressure when buying a pump. Consider the amount fo distance and any 45 or 90 degree elbows that you may have and deduct the amount of resistance so that you will have a more exact figure of how much flow you will have. K , for Kelvin is the color spectrum.....the rainbow color of lightbulbs , if you will. The higher the Kelvin, the deeper the blue. Plants grow at 65K and below and corals grow 10,000K and above.

 

[vezina345]

Thanks for the input, considering the Kelvin is color spectrum and since blue penetrates water the deepest then the higher the K the deeper the penetration? On a 24 inch or deeper tank you want more lights 10,000K or higher in order to get the most penetration?
If I am correct so far then the K rating is almost, if not as important, as the total wattage?

 

[1journeyman]

Blue light reachest the deepest, but doesn't make the corals grow the best. 10,000k is the best for coral growth.
I agree that the "watts per gallon" rule, much as the "inch per gallon" rule, is outdated.
I also don't like the idea of trying to raise an anemone in sub=par lighting by placing it high in the tank. An anemone moves where it wants to go. That may not be where the lighting is best for it.
Flow is also a difficult thing. You don't just want 5 powerheads on one side of the tank blasting in the same direction. You want total water movement. No dead spots. Experiment with powerheads in different locations to see what works best. For high current demanding corals you'll want 30x or so ghp. I use a wave2k and enjoy the current it produces.

 

[jonthefishguy]

Jon, please don't post links to sites like this. While it is great information, it leads to sites that are direct competitors to SWF. 1Journeyman
If your arguement is that we cant post link that is VERY HELPFULL by gving an actual "side by side comparison" of metal halides because you think it wil take away bussiness, than I rather not be a part of this forum. I personally know that if offering a bit of information to my customers even though it was from a competitor but helped all around, I would offer it to them. For you to actually think that by placing a link will somehow tank MANY of SWF.com's customers away is competly idiotic. For those of you that are new to the forum, there are other forums that actually are better....CLOSE MY ACCOUNT

 

[vezina345]

Again thanks for helping to clarify some questions. I know I'm sounding like an idiot but I'm trying get get the information clear before acting. I have about16 months with saltwater predator tanks but am wanting to expand my horizons.
It sounds like a good rule for starters is about 3.5-4 watts per gallon at 10,000k is a good starting point for the hardier soft corals.
Having said that, would most reference points ( books and online ) that just say low, moderate or high for required lighting, where would the 3.5-4 WPG fall?
As I previously said I have never seen an actual measurement for where or how the references determine what is high versus moderate versus low.

 

[1journeyman]

High to low lighting to me means more the type of lighting.
High=Halides, T5, etc.
Low=normal fl. starter bulbs, actinics, etc.

 

[groupergenius]

Not to hi-jack this thread but, would one factor in the actual gallons in the tank? For example: I am doing a 15 tall tank with 70W HQI Sunpod. If I use the 15 gal my WPG is 4.7. If I use the actual 12.5 gallons after you factor in LS and LR it's more like 5.6
At the 5.6 I would think that all corals and clams should do good right?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
Not to hi-jack this thread but, would one factor in the actual gallons in the tank? For example: I am doing a 15 tall tank with 70W HQI Sunpod. If I use the 15 gal my WPG is 4.7. If I use the actual 12.5 gallons after you factor in LS and LR it's more like 5.6
At the 5.6 I would think that all corals and clams should do good right?
This is a great example of why "wpg" is outdated. Few folks know exactly how many gallons they actually have.
In this case that is plenty of light (although a clam in a 15 gallon is a bad idea).

 

[groupergenius]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
This is a great example of why "wpg" is outdated. Few folks know exactly how many gallons they actually have.
In this case that is plenty of light (although a clam in a 15 gallon is a bad idea).
No Clams For ME.

Oh well. When I turn the 90 into a reef tank maybe. Figured I'd try the small one first.

 

[rattler739]

There are some people that keep just about anything on PC (clams, sps, ect.) is this ok? Could you just upgrade to a higher wattage with the same size PC bulb? Would that do basicly the same thing as having T5s or Halides but a lot cheaper?

I have a 14g Biocube and would like to get better lighting but dont want to upgrade to halide, but wouldnt mind changing PC bulbs to a higher wattage if that works.
Just curious.

 

[vezina345]

Wattage definately has to be a factor because ( and I'm not trying to cause any trouble ) as 1Journeyman said was that high lighting would consist of T5 or halides. T5 is a bulb size not power I can go buy a 14w T5 bulb but I know it's not enough for my 240g tank, neither would a 75w halide.
There's got to be a balance point between wattage and K that should be a good starting piont for someone trying to get started.
For example I am running 8 T8 6500K bulbs at 64 watts each and also 2 T5 34w actinics on my 240g tank. That's 576 watts mostly at 6500K. I have been successfully housing kenya tree corals for several months now.
Would swapping out a couple of the 6500K bulbs for 10,000K or 14,000K at the same wattage give me more options to place in the tank?

 

[ninjamini]

Make it easy on him. what size tank? 100 gal? 2x250mh and 2 x 96 atinic. Thats what you need.