Is pot REALLY more of a "gateway" drug than alcohol, pills, etc?

[theclemsonkid]

There is a local police chief who went on an epic Facebook rant this morning, saying how he is putting dope dealers on notice, because he won't be going to find another dead young person from a heroin overdose (apparently a teen at the local high school was found dead this weekend). He then went on to frame marijuana as the number one "gateway" drug. He makes the claim that "100% of every heroin addict" he's come across started with pot.

I know it's a tough question, because no one wants to incriminate themselves... but isn't it about time we as a country take a different approach to this whole drug problem?

I've seen way more people DIE from alcohol, cigarettes, and lately even prescription pills. Why do we hold on to this archaic principle of going after "pot" as the sole "starter drug" for everything else. I feel like while pot is in some ways a problem, it's probably eighth or ninth in line, yet is looked at as public enemy number one.

I'll be honest, I have never had a cigarette or smoked pot (I have this irrational fear of inhaling anything that's burning). I've had too much to drink a time or two, and I've even had oxy and vicoden a few times from prescriptions. And I can guess that both of those would put me in a much more dangerous situation than pot.

I'm not defending the lazy pothead who sits on the couch all day and isn't a productive member of society. I'm just shocked that after 40 years of the "war on drugs", we still haven't changed our approach.

And it typical American capitalism, I have a feeling no one wants to touch alcohol, cigarettes, or pills because... let's face it... they make too many powerful people entirely too much money...

 

[aggiealum]

I smoked pot in high school and early college days. I could get the same "buzz" as drinking a six pack, but didn't get the horrid side effects of your typical hangover drinking alcohol. After leaving college, I lost access to the marijuana and haven't touched the stuff in over 35 years. Never tried cocaine, heroin, or any of the various flavors of pills. I didn't have withdrawals, didn't have to the urge to experiment with other drugs, and nowadays I stick strictly to alcohol. Even with that, it's pretty much social drinking. I have a multitude of friends who had the same experiences as me, and we laugh about taking a road trip to Colorado to get a "legal toke". I would say cigarettes and alcohol are way more addictive than marijuana, but I would assume that's because they are readily accessible throughout the country. I guess you could guage the long-term effects of readily-available marijuana usage with Colorado and Washington enacting their laws. See how the marijuana-related crime statistics end up in those states after a few years.

 

[beth]

Just think how much money the USA would save if we did not have a "War On Drugs".

 

[2quills]

Personally, I would legalize it just out of spite for the cartels and gangs that terrorize our neighborhoods fighting over control of who sells it and where.
The extra tax revenue wouldn't hurt seeing as how people are going to do it anyway.
The gateway seems to be in the mind of the user/abuser. Surely, heroin addicts had access to alcohol and tobacoo just as easily as pot, if not easier. Who's to say those aren't gateways?
I think pot heads generally are less rowdy than alcoholics anyways To lazy to fight or rob anyone lol.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I say legalize it as well. It would really screw over our government.
Drugs in this country makes more money than many legal pathways out there. Heck, I'd at least like to see marijuana legalized. Less the police have to deal with. Less paperwork. Less money spent.
Heck, I'd say it would boost our economy if all those home growers could report their incomes and start paying taxes.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/396714/is-pot-really-more-of-a-gateway-drug-than-alcohol-pills-etc#post_3534688
There is a local police chief who went on an epic Facebook rant this morning, saying how he is putting dope dealers on notice, because he won't be going to find another dead young person from a heroin overdose (apparently a teen at the local high school was found dead this weekend). He then went on to frame marijuana as the number one "gateway" drug. He makes the claim that "100% of every heroin addict" he's come across started with pot.

I know it's a tough question, because no one wants to incriminate themselves... but isn't it about time we as a country take a different approach to this whole drug problem?

I've seen way more people DIE from alcohol, cigarettes, and lately even prescription pills. Why do we hold on to this archaic principle of going after "pot" as the sole "starter drug" for everything else. I feel like while pot is in some ways a problem, it's probably eighth or ninth in line, yet is looked at as public enemy number one.

I'll be honest, I have never had a cigarette or smoked pot (I have this irrational fear of inhaling anything that's burning). I've had too much to drink a time or two, and I've even had oxy and vicoden a few times from prescriptions. And I can guess that both of those would put me in a much more dangerous situation than pot.

I'm not defending the lazy pothead who sits on the couch all day and isn't a productive member of society. I'm just shocked that after 40 years of the "war on drugs", we still haven't changed our approach.

And it typical American capitalism, I have a feeling no one wants to touch alcohol, cigarettes, or pills because... let's face it... they make too many powerful people entirely too much money...

...IMHO...people who like killing their brain cells and getting high, will use whatever method they can find, from weed to drinking cough syrup as a young person...to a full blown alcoholic or crack head later. They like getting high and NOTHING anyone says or does will stop them.

I have the power to control my own life, that's it. I feel very sorry for the poor police who THINK they can do something to clean up the streets, and I feel even sorrier for the poor people who have to deal with an idiot family member who is a drug/alcohol addict, and I feel extra sorry for the neighbors of the drug dealers, and those who live across the street from the bar. I love the idiots in my family who have ruined/lost their lives who are/were hooked on this stuff...But I keep them at arms length because they can't be trusted. If there was a legal way to sterilize them from having any kids to abuse or neglect...I would vote "hell yes", because children don't deserve such parents.

There is no answer, all we can do is educate people in the hopes they can find something else to do with their lives. I also think it's a waste of time to bother putting drug addicts in jail. I really wish all cars would require some method to not start if an idiot attempts to drive stoned or drunk.

I'm with 2Quills, why should the gangs get all the non-taxed profit...but Snake, if you think the home growers are going to report it and pay taxes...I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Flower, I guess you need to talk to me face to face to understand my brand of humor.

 

[2quills]

In order to regulate it you'd have to have licensed manufacturers and distributors. Home growing would have to remain illegal or be less convenient to even be worth bothering to do for what you could purchase a pack of purple crush for from the local gas station. Ofcorse there will always be those who try to cheat the system. But here we already have a ready made industry craving a product that is arguably no worse than alcohol. It seems to me that if the country is hurting for money then it would kind of be silly to not consider legalizing the stuff. At least then you'd have all of these people paying into the system and there is we're you'll get some controll (not much but some).

 

[darthtang aw]

I was going to comment, then realized after reading a few responses...why bother.....
Darth (what is the point) Tang

 

[beth]

What about just end War on Drugs? Period. All of the reasons to legalize marijuana would be the same for all drugs.

 

[2quills]

What about just end War on Drugs?  Period.  All of the reasons to legalize marijuana would be the same for all drugs.   
Assuming what, that the hard drugs are the same as marijuana? That won't happen.

 

[beth]

If the premise is that people who are going to take drugs are going to do it legal or not, then why not just not have a war on drugs? The upside is billions savings on fighting the war on drugs. The same that was done with tobacco can be done with recreational drugs socially and economically. And a good deal of crime would be eliminated.

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/396714/is-pot-really-more-of-a-gateway-drug-than-alcohol-pills-etc#post_3534735
If the premise is that people who are going to take drugs are going to do it legal or not, then why not just not have a war on drugs? The upside is billions savings on fighting the war on drugs. The same that was done with tobacco can be done with recreational drugs socially and economically. And a good deal of crime would be eliminated.
I'm pretty sure Spain, or Portugal, or someone over there decriminalized all drugs... and I think things got better. I haven't read up on it, but I have heard all about it from some friends...

 

[2quills]

I'd be more than happy to play ball and beat the devil at his own game. But I'm not the one who needs to be convinced. There are a lot of shady people on our side who make fortunes off of the drug war. And that's another reason why I wouldn't mind ending it.

 

[darthtang aw]

If the premise is that people who are going to take drugs are going to do it legal or not, then why not just not have a war on drugs?
We can attribute this thought process to any law on the books banning an activity. Murder, stealing, rape, etc....
The argument needs to be more than just that aspect.
I am curious...how many here have actually traveled to these countries where drugs are legalized?

 

[2quills]

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/396714/is-pot-really-more-of-a-gateway-drug-than-alcohol-pills-etc#post_3534762
We can attribute this thought process to any law on the books banning an activity. Murder, stealing, rape, etc....
The argument needs to be more than just that aspect.
I am curious...how many here have actually traveled to these countries where drugs are legalized?
Maybe, but overall that is the best reason for me. Most of the people in jails are there for drug related convictions--War on Drugs. How many people's lives are ruined because of War on Drugs--you sell a baggie of pot to make a few bucks while trying to go to college, get busted, bam a life altering event. What has happened south of the boarder because of War on Drugs. Its about government control of society and it does't work.

 

[aggiealum]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/396714/is-pot-really-more-of-a-gateway-drug-than-alcohol-pills-etc#post_3534762
We can attribute this thought process to any law on the books banning an activity. Murder, stealing, rape, etc....
The argument needs to be more than just that aspect.
I am curious...how many here have actually traveled to these countries where drugs are legalized?
I've been to Amsterdam several times. They've tightened the laws somewhat for the tourists, but it's still easily readily if you want it. Just go visit some of the "coffee shops".

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/netherlands_v_us#sthash.WsFy7gmT.dpbs

Netherlands;
Variable Amount/description Rank
Crime > Assaults 44,129 [14th of 58]
Crime > Car thefts (per capita) 2.33559 per 1,000 people [15th of 55]
Crime > Drug offences 47 per 100,000 people [20th of 36]
Crime > Illicit drugs
major European producer of ecstasy, illicit amphetamines, and other synthetic drugs; important gateway for cocaine, heroin, and hashish entering Europe; major source of US-bound ecstasy; large financial sector vulnerable to money laundering
Crime > Murders 183 [40th of 63]
Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.0111538 per 1,000 people [51st of 62]
Crime > Rapes 1,648 [20th of 66]
Crime > Rapes (per capita) 0.100445 per 1,000 people [22nd of 65]
Crime > Total crimes 1,305,640 [14th of 61]
Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 79.5779 per 1,000 people
USA;
Variable Amount/description Rank
Crime > Assaults 2,238,480 [1st of 58]
Crime > Car thefts (per capita) 3.8795 per 1,000 people [9th of 55]
Crime > Murders 12,658 [6th of 63]
Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.042802 per 1,000 people [24th of 62]
Crime > Murders with firearms 8,259 [4th of 32]
Crime > Murders with firearms (per capita) 0.0279271 per 1,000 people [8th of 32]
Crime > Rapes 89,110 [1st of 66]
Crime > Rapes (per capita) 0.301318 per 1,000 people [9th of 65]
Crime > Total crimes 23,677,800 [1st of 61]
Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 80.0645 per 1,000 people [8th of 60]
Follow the link to the website, but keep in mind that much of the Netherlands is not thought of as vacation areas, I have seen the slums or Rotterdam, to the shipyards on the sea. The tourist town in Amsterdam is safer then you think. Many cops and such. Stay out of the slums and shipyards.
Source(s):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita

 

[darthtang aw]

Comparing crime numbers of the two countries is pointless. There are to many variables for those numbers to be used as any sort of deduction towards drugs and their impact on society. Now, using netherlands crime statistics before they "legalized" and five years after "legalizing" will have some bearing. However oine could argue economics as a variable factor as well.
Throughout the world, drug use is down in general, especially for pot. Any thoughts as to why?

 

[2quills]

Where'd you get that info from, Darth? Everything I see seems to be conflicting. I see reports that certain types of drug usage had gone down only to rise in other areas like priscription drugs. And that pot usage by teens was down only to rise back up last year.
Portugal, decriminilized drugs 10 years ago and usage has dropped by 50%. If you look at the others they've dropped as well. Maybe that's where your data is coming from?