Is this enough light to reach the bottom of my tank

[schlong33]

Newbie asking newbie questions, just want to through that out at the beginning.
I have a cube tank that is 30" deep. I have it set up as a reverse flow, with the water going towards my sump flowing from the top of the tank. This passageway that the water flows in, is about 3"x3"x30", in the center of the tank. That's the background.
I have just built a light box (woohoo! ), using 4 standard wattage bars, 24" length. I have also have aluminum reflectors to direct all the light down into my tank.
My questions become;
If I stagger Actinic blue (x2) and normal fluorescents (x2), will this be enough light to support a mostly fish only with some LR and anemones? I don't think I am ready yet for coral, experience level and all.
I understand that deeper the tank, the more loss of light you get, but I am hoping that my overflow will let light reach the bottom more easily?
I would much rather no get into compact power lighting, due to cost constraints, but will if that is what it will take.
Thanks in advance!

 

[jond]

I am a little confused on your tank size and set up. What size tank is it? (Gal. and dimensions) I believe standard 24" bulbs are only 20w each. That is not much light, and more importantly the spectrum won't compare to higher output lights. You mention you are going to start with fish and anemones, but not corals. You need to know that anemones have more light and water requirements than most corals and you should not atempt them with those lights.
When I got started, I wasted alot of time and money before upgrading to VHO's. If I knew at the beginning, it would have saved me money in the long run.

 

[schlong33]

Sorry, let me clairify.
My tank is a cube 28x28x30 (in.), approx. 102 gallons. Right through the center of the cube is a 3x3x30 (in) space in which my water to the sump travels along the edges of this space.
(looking down into my tank)
**********
*~~~~~~~~*
*~~***~~~*
*~~*$*~~~*
*~~***~~~*
*~~~~~~~~*
**********
~ = water
* = glass
$ = open area in which the h2O travels.
Ok, newbie question, VHO? Sorry, I know this is a basic question, but I guess that I have to start somewhere. I saw on this site 50/50, metal halide, but I didn't see VHO on the step by step setup.
Also, I have seen in some other posts, their should be x amount of watt, per x gallons. Is this true in all cases (i.e. tank shape, etc.) or is this just a quick and dirty estimate?
Finally, I see that you are in norman. Do you mind if I ask who your lfs is? I have just moved into the area (stillwater), and if I could get a recomendation, that would be great.
Thanks for you time helping a newbie.
[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Schlong33 ]
[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Schlong33 ]

 

[jond]

That is a very interesting tank design. I don't think I have seen anything like that before. So the center part is the overflow to your sump?
VHO stands for very hight output. We are not allowed to post links to other sites that sell goods, but do a web search with the words "VHO" and "Champion". That should get you to a site that has some great info and deals on VHO and ohter lighting.
Yes the watts per gal. rule is a crude way of judging light intensity, but it is all some have to go by.
There are a couple nice large shops in OKC, but I like one hear in Norman called "Cyrstal Clear Aquatics". Small shop, nice people, good deals.
I don't know if I helped you much, but good luck with the tank.

 

[q]

Well ----,
If you want to do corals than deffinatly vho unless you wish to do corals that require only very little light. If you don't want corals than it won't matter what light you use just what your eyes want.
If you do want to do corals and your wallet is fat then go with 2 250W MH and vho support. Using just vho in a deep tank will limit what you can keep on the bottom.
[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: Plato ]

 

[schlong33]

Thanks for your help on this jond!
Yeah, the water travels down the inside of the glass in this space, where I have a coarse filter for large particulates. Nothing fancy, just something to keep the larger stuff from my sump.
The water is then pulled down into my sump, over my trickle (? I think that is what it is called) plate, through the bioballs, heater, skimmer, and then back up a PVC tube to the top of my tank. I have a powerhead at the top for some of the return water, but most of the water is pumped to the bottom of the tank, and ejected through pvc piping lining the bottom of the tank in evenly spaced squares.
This setup lets me have ample water current and limits dead (anerobic, i believe) spots. Plus, it is taller than some, so for a show tank, not bad. Downside is that I have to use CC for my base, and now I wonder if I am going to be able to have LR +the extras at the bottom.
Once I heard about the bennies of LS, I would love to use it, but the sand would stay agiatated forever with my setup. I would assume, no matter how deep the sand, water doesn't travel through it without some sort of agiatation.
O well, next tank
Question. Do you think that it is cost effective for me to drive down to Norman to this lfs? I went to one in OKC off of McCarthur, that wasn't bad, but I will go to where the best fish are.
I guess I don't know what is a deal, and what is not. Don't want to get screwed. Go figure
Thanks!

 

[jond]

With the deep tank, you will just need to get the more light needing corals closer to the top and down from there. No big deal. I have a 37gal. that is a deep tank and it works out well. I hope to go to a 120 or 157 soon.
The store I use is not very big, so it doesn't stock as much as the bigger stores in OKC. Namely the Reef Shop and Aquarium Concepts. The bonus is they will order what ever you want and are willing to quarentine it for several days to make sure it eats and is healthy. Plus the prices are way better. On fish, corals and inverts anyway. They are about the same as everyone on LR.
It doesn't sound like there is anyway you can do a DSB with that tank. I am currently using CC and it isn't a problem if you keep it clean. I will do DSB with my new tank.
Good luck to ya.

 

[schlong33]

Cool! thanks for your help on this one!

 

[jedimaster]

My 2 cents.
About watts per gallon again, lol
The best way to determine how much light you need is to go by lumens per inch of depth of water. You will also have to figure in the color temp as that plays a large role in the depth light will penetrate. The bluer the light the deeper it will travel into water.
As for lumens.
MH have the most lumens per watt
then NO bulbs
then HO Bulbs
then PC bulbs
then VHO
MH's are very expensive.
You need lots of NO bulbs to get the lumens required so if you have lots of room then NO is a great way to go.
btw I have NO bulbs, 8 48 inchers. I have room for about 4 more but I think I will just add either two VHO or two MH's all depends on the money I have when I want to add coral. My tank is 24 inches deep. And the number of lumens/depth I have now is greater than that of my LFS with MH lights on his coral holding tanks.
You can usually get the lumen rating on the bulb box or from the manufacturer. I have a mix of 6,500k and 20,000k actinic blue bulbs.
The last thing you have to factor in is the amount of light that is dispersed over how far of an area. eg if you 48" bulb puts out 4800 lumens thats about 100 lumens per inch going down. But if you have a 20" light that puts out 2500 lummensthen more light per inch is going down. Get the idea?
Anyway when all is said and done I figure the following to be good advice.
If your tank is 24" deep or less then NO flours are good enough at at least 3 watts per gallon. If you have MH's then you can go with less than 3 watts. if you have VHO's then you need slightly more than 3 watts per gallon.
as for deeper tanks I would recomend Actinic VHO's or NO's with the bulk of the lighting at MH.
That is why I only made my tank 24" deep as opposed to the original design of 36".
anyway good luck m8.
So that was more like a buck and a quarter but I love to talk about lights.
as for 5 watts per gallon...thats more of a throwback to when people used incandecent and NO's were not very good, but, NO lights are putting out way more lumens per watt now a days.
Ain't technology grand.