Is this normal when Vodka dosing?

flower

flower

Well-Known Member

I have been dosing vodka for a few weeks now. But instead of my nitrates going down, it’s going up. My tank is 90g with 24g sump and 18g refugium…so I figured with the rocks maybe 125g to dose.
On 4/28 NO3 was 40+ when I started (too light for 40, but not dark enough for 80 the next color up) 1[sup]st[/sup] Vodka Dose 0.9 and each day for the first week
By 5/3 NO3 was 20………dose 0.9 + 0.5 = 1.3
Did a 30g water change on 5/5
5/5…… 10……………………dose 1.3
5/6…… 20……………………dose 1.3
5/7…… 20……………………dose 1.3
5/8…… 20+…………………dose 1.3
5/9…… 40…………………..dose 1.3
5/10…. 40…………………..dose 1.3
5/11… 80……………………dose (add another 0.5) = 1.8
I thought inverts couldn’t handle over 40, but my shrimp is fine. LOL…Coal miners had a canary to tell them of dangerous air, I use a cleaner shrimp. I used two different test kits with the same results...80
Octopus skimmer 1000sss is putting out dark sludge but not much 1/8 inch in the cup a day.
Stock list:

  • 4.5 to 5 inch Hippo tang

  • 3.5 to 4 inch Kole tang

  • Orchid dottyback
    Lawnmower blenny
    Lemonpeel angelfish
    2 perc clowns
Inverts:

  • 2 serpent stars

  • cleaner shrimp

  • snails
    Coral:
    Green star polyps
    a few mushrooms
All readings are
PH..........8.4
KH..........12
NO3.......80
PO4.........0
Cal..........440
 
S

smartorl

Guest
I know it has probably been discussed a few times but I don't know how your tank continues to spike nitrates at those levels or why vodka dosing would be neccessary.
It looks like you are on the higher end of a bioload with the two larger tangs but there has to be a reason why this system isn't stable.
Did you swap out some sand to reseed your sandbed?
I am totally puzzled with the continued nitrate problem in this particular tank. There has to a source.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Does the tank have algae in it? Is the algae starting to die off both the display and the sumpfuge? Skim a tad wetter you are not pulling much out at 1/8 inch per day.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartorl http:///forum/thread/385631/is-this-normal-when-vodka-dosing#post_3382793
I know it has probably been discussed a few times but I don't know how your tank continues to spike nitrates at those levels or why vodka dosing would be neccessary.
It looks like you are on the higher end of a bioload with the two larger tangs but there has to be a reason why this system isn't stable.
Did you swap out some sand to reseed your sandbed?
I am totally puzzled with the continued nitrate problem in this particular tank. There has to a source.
Nitrates have been my nightmare with this tank, and for the last 2 years I have been fighting it, but it never went over 20. On your last point...we thought it might be a dead sand bed because my tank was electrocuted by a broken heater, I reseeded the sand, started a refugium and seeded that as well. I can't put any macros in the DT, the tangs eat it up, and I can't get a light over the refugium because of there being no room, not more than an inch.
Vodka dosing seemed the best way all things considering..but why would nitrates go up for goodness sake...80, it has never been that high, and how is my shrimp still alive????
Spanko. I don't have a drop of algae except coraline. The urchin made sure of that and then died of stravation, that was over a month ago.
NikeSB...re-word this to ...I just did a water change on 5/5 and the change before that was 2 weeks. So while the tank was neglected, I was going to break it down... the fresh water changes and vodka dosing ..means nitrates should either be the same and vodka not doing anything yet to dropping, but instead they are climbing
 
slice

slice

Active Member
Well here is a silly question....
How old is your test kit? Have you verified the test with a different kit (LFS, friend, etc)?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice http:///forum/thread/385631/is-this-normal-when-vodka-dosing#post_3382855
Well here is a silly question....
How old is your test kit? Have you verified the test with a different kit (LFS, friend, etc)?
Not a silly question. I thought the same thing since my kit is about a year old....older because how long it may have sat on a shelf in the LFS...so I got a brand new, no seals broken yet master kit and re- tested and got the exact same reading.
I even thought maybe I had ammonia from something, and tested that to be sure as well..I got a beautiful big 0 for that, so it isn't rot from something deep in the rocks. I have two good sized serpent stars and I doubt any dead thing would go uneaten but I had to be sure..
 
S

smartorl

Guest
IDK, it just seems like putting a band aid on a bullet wound. After dozens of years in the hobby, starting with 4-H marine aquarium projects when I was nine, its just that nothing that happens within our ecosystems that goes wrong is without a cause.
The whole key is balance and one thing out of wack often starts a chain reaction and I have learned more from my failures than my successes.
There has to be something. It just doesn't make sense, more so that the numbers are still rising with the addition of the fuge and sump.
 
mproctor4

mproctor4

Member
Welcome to my world. My nitrates are always well over 80. They are so high I can't read it on my card. I believe that the kit is accurate because we test multiple tanks on this kit and the rest are acceptable. The only shrimp I have lost were due to a fish eating them. All of the other inverts appear healthy. My corals are growing very well and appear to be very healthy as well. (smilies not working again). The only SPS I have are 2 montiporas, both of which are growing like weeds. I have no idea how things can thrive with nitrates so high, but they are and have been for quite some time. I have been considering getting a good skimmer and vodka dosing, but I must admit I am almost afraid to rock the boat too much. If I do, I will try to bring the level down very slowly. I built an algae turf scrubber 4 1/2 months ago, has done NOTHING for the nitrates but the tank looks noticeably cleaner, so I will continue to run it just for that. Who knows!?!? It is interesting how tanks can be so different.
A little off subject but- I don't let it worry me too much as long as everything is healthy. I grew up watching my father who had a large saltwater tank for well over 20 years and never once tested the water for anything other than salinity. He used the same swing arm hydrometer the entire time. He did a water change once a year "if the tank needed it or not" (I can't imagine how high his levels must have been!). He used an undergravel filter, crushed coral, lava rock out of the landscaping in the front yard, and 2 canister filters--he only cleaned one at a time with his yearly water change, and no skimmer. Everything he did was taboo (now this was long before the internet and the fish stores barely had a clue what they were talking about so it is very different than now), but he had a beautiful tank and most everything thrived. He had fish/invertebrates live longer than anyone else I have known. He studied his tank and knew when something was wrong without test kits. I'm sure I will get flamed for this, but sometimes things just work that shouldn't. I'm not recommending this for anyone, but it worked well for him, it seemed the less he messed with the tank the better it did. As long as the critters are doing well in your tank, don't worry yourself silly over it. Just my .02 for whatever it is worth.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:Originally Posted by mproctor4 http:///forum/thread/385631/is-this-normal-when-vodka-dosing#post_3383005
Welcome to my world. My nitrates are always well over 80. They are so high I can't read it on my card. I believe that the kit is accurate because we test multiple tanks on this kit and the rest are acceptable. The only shrimp I have lost were due to a fish eating them. All of the other inverts appear healthy. My corals are growing very well and appear to be very healthy as well. (smilies not working again). The only SPS I have are 2 montiporas, both of which are growing like weeds. I have no idea how things can thrive with nitrates so high, but they are and have been for quite some time. I have been considering getting a good skimmer and vodka dosing, but I must admit I am almost afraid to rock the boat too much. If I do, I will try to bring the level down very slowly. I built an algae turf scrubber 4 1/2 months ago, has done NOTHING for the nitrates but the tank looks noticeably cleaner, so I will continue to run it just for that. Who knows!?!? It is interesting how tanks can be so different.
A little off subject but- I don't let it worry me too much as long as everything is healthy. I grew up watching my father who had a large saltwater tank for well over 20 years and never once tested the water for anything other than salinity. He used the same swing arm hydrometer the entire time. He did a water change once a year "if the tank needed it or not" (I can't imagine how high his levels must have been!). He used an undergravel filter, crushed coral, lava rock out of the landscaping in the front yard, and 2 canister filters--he only cleaned one at a time with his yearly water change, and no skimmer. Everything he did was taboo (now this was long before the internet and the fish stores barely had a clue what they were talking about so it is very different than now), but he had a beautiful tank and most everything thrived. He had fish/invertebrates live longer than anyone else I have known. He studied his tank and knew when something was wrong without test kits. I'm sure I will get flamed for this, but sometimes things just work that shouldn't. I'm not recommending this for anyone, but it worked well for him, it seemed the less he messed with the tank the better it did. As long as the critters are doing well in your tank, don't worry yourself silly over it. Just my .02 for whatever it is worth.
 
kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
can I ask you what % of alc/vol your using? What proof. for example is it 80 proof? From what I have read the lesser proof the more you dose, the highier the less you dose.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
I can't seem to post with your quote or edit...I answered 3Xs already
Look at post #1....80% vodka and I am up to 1.8 dose. Starting week #3
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
I don't see where you say you are using 80 proof vodka in post #1 but now you have said it so no worries.
IMO
Skimming too dry for now, up the skimmer just a tad.
Purchase some Brightwells MB7 ( not the best IMO but it does help) and add 1/2 the recommended rate on the bottle.
You are only three weeks in it may take a little longer for you to see results. If you are doing your maintenance schedule and water changes just wait it out a bit.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
LOL...I'm afraid to post with a quote...for some reason it only shows the quote and then won't ley me edit.
Spanko..You are correct about not showing 80% proof in the first post, I didn't realize...mostly I meant the dose being up to 1.8 but I was wrong on both counts. The dose I am doing is 1.9 because I esstimated my tank water volume as 125 with the sump and refugium, but I can't edit and fix it.
I have never heard of brightwells MB7...what is that and what does it do? I will go hunt for it to purchase.
 
nikesb

nikesb

Active Member
MB7 is a bacteria that brightwell cultured. many people swear that it is the right culture for carbon dosing. some people have even stated it only took them two weeks to cycle using MB7.
i seeded my tank prior to using vodka and was succesful. my next go around, i will not seed and see the difference, though i bought some mb7 from swf just in case
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
I didn't know SWF carried it...I was searching all over and found it at Foster & Smith. I purchased it, and a gallon of mineral mud for my refugiums. Then I went on another site and ordered some mesh breeders Hang on the tank for the Seahorses since I have 3 males and will most likely have babies everywhere.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
I still can't seem to edit...One mesh breeder I am going to hang in the 90g and put chaeto in it since I can't get a light over my refugium.
 
nikesb

nikesb

Active Member
the vodka will usually cause the chaeto to die, but should be fine until its in low in nutrients
 
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