Issue with newer Aquarium

[cameronladd]

So I decided to start a saltwater aquarium last month, I bought a 55 gallon tank, 2 powerheads, a protein skimmer and a grounding probe as well as a heater. I put in 40 maybe 50 lbs of aragonite in and seeded it with 5lbs of live sand, roughly 40lbs of cured live rock and let it do its thing for about a week. Unfortunately I used tap water and salt mix to do my initial water input with tap water conditioner. So...I let it sit for a week and the LFS (after a water test) said it would be ok to add a clownfish, a crab and some snails. The fish did not do well, it died withing about 4 days(after many trips to the fish store as I was worried and they said it was normal). The fish was never very active, was starting to get pale, skin looked ragged, just kind of sat on the bottom, although the day that it died it started to be pretty active but then started swimming straight up. So I told the fish store my problems and said that they had a problem with their batch of clown fish, so they gave me a refund. I did a 35 gallon water change and did 10 gallon water changes every week. I proceeded to wait another week to be safe got my water tested and added a damsel as they are less expensive in case it was my fault...it did fine for about a week and a half in which case I added another clown. That day the damsel died and I rushed to the fish store wondering what is going on, they sold me a $50 dollar bottle of Rally Ruby Reef (for bacteria and parasites) and a few days later the 2nd clown died as well. Both exhibited the same symptoms of loosing color, skin looked ragged. I found the damsel floating with the current and moving one fin...all this was quite sad. I have probably had at least a dozen water tests throughout all this and went to other aquarium stores to get my water tested all come back fine. The weird thing is that throughout all of this ordeal my snails and crab have been fine. What should I do from here? Not sure if I should start over? It has been a 2 weeks since then, haven't added anything...just worried, I don't want to kill any more fish...HELP! I don't know what to do or if I should just do more and more water changes...any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated
It is about a month and a half old, the Aquarium store guy said it was ok to add a clown and the other stuff at that early point bc they were so hardy. The second occurrence of this happened when the aquarium was a month old (as I remember reading that a month was good cycling time)
I have a test kit and they all read 0ppm for everything. pH is fine 8.2 something to 8.3 last I checked, salinity is around 1.023 and everything else is seemingly good. I didn't trust my own tests so I have had it tested at stores over a dozen times. Temp is always set at 78, thermometer on other side of aquarium from heater.

 

[meowzer]

Have you ever read about cycling a tank? I think I read you said After having the tank for a week you put a fish in....How old is this tank now?

 

[bang guy]

loosing color, skin looked ragged
These are classic ammonia poisoning symptoms.
I have two suggestions:
1 - Become very familiar with the Nitrogen Cycle. You can gather information here or get a really good reef book. Don't buy anymore fish until you believe you know what to expect when you add a fish.
2 - Purchase your own set of test kits. I'd recommend Ammonia, Nitrate, Alkalinity, Calcium, PH, temperature (thermometer), and Salinity (refractometer).

 

[naclh2o nut]

3
If I read this correct you are using a protien skimmer as your only filter? I also belive you should make sure that you have gone through a cycle. Read, read, then proceed.

Good luck, keep us up to date.

 

[cameronladd]

Is that a problem using a protein skimmer as your only filter? How do I know when I am done cycling?
Thanks for the help I am new to this and thought I had done enough research and probably shouldn't have listened to the fish store people and added fish too early...

 

[meowzer]

A protein skimmer is a skimmer...not a filter....some people only use them..I'd look for a filter.

 

[cameronladd]

Do you think the initial tap water mix was a problem? I was going to wait another month before adding anything else...What do you guys think?

 

[wattsupdoc]

Actually the rock and sand are the filter, the skimmer is an additional filter.
First of all don't rely on the LFS for help, at least not the one that sold you the fish and the ruby red crap. They are only there trying to make a buck evidently. Just like Bag Guy stated, learn about the nitrogen cycle, you should be through it by now, however definitely when you add a fish it can spike. Especially if you haven't fed the tank. You need something in there to break down in order to keep the beneficial bacteria alive.I would suggest ghost feeding the tank for the next couple weeks. Every other day ad a very small portion of food to the tank just as if you were feeding the fish you want to add. Test daily for ammo, trites, and trates during this time. See if you see the numbers spike. Hopefully you will see a little bit ammo, then a little bit of trites ith ammo going down, then a little bit trates as trites go down. Now this may happen pretty rapidly if you already have beneficial bacteria in place, so you may not see the ammo going down, it may just be back down to 0, etc. Additionally it may just be a very slight spike that occurs. But test DAILY...Don't do any more water changes and whatever they tell you don't add any more fish. Keep us updated...Oh and Welcome to SWF.com

 

[meowzer]

Waiting is good...get a filter suitable for your size tank...keep testing until all results are 0

 

[cameronladd]

Waiting seems like a good idea. I have read that putting a piece of dead shrimp can help cycle your aquarium too, is this true? Also, I shouldn't do anymore water changes??
Thanks again for all the help you guys

 

[eric b 125]

the nitrogen cycle in less than a minute: waste in your tank creates ammonia, ammonia levels rise. ammonia converts to nitrites, nitrite levels rise. nitrites turn into nitrates, nitrate levels rise and fall. so first you will get an ammonia spike, the ammonia will fall, creating a nitrite spike, etc. once these chemical levels rise and fall, and they are all at 0, then your cycle is complete. some people are okay with having traces of nitrates, but i'm not one of them so i cant speak on it. things like fish poop (detritus), die off from LR (when it's been out of the water for too long), dead fish, fish food that wasnt eaten, so forth and so on, will rot and raise ammonia levels. this is why we are so a.nal about filtration in our tanks.

 

[monalisa]

Originally Posted by cameronladd
http:///forum/post/2964771
Waiting seems like a good idea. I have read that putting a piece of dead shrimp can help cycle your aquarium too, is this true? Also, I shouldn't do anymore water changes??
Thanks again for all the help you guys
Definitely throw a raw shrimp in from the grocery store and wait. The ammonia will first spike, then the nitrites, then nitrates. When the nitrates begin to go down, do a water change, then test again after a day or two...this whole process will take a number weeks, not days. Do SMALL water changes until the nitrates are as close to zero as you can get...if not at zero.
During this process, do what I call the flashlight dance after lights out and notice the numerous critters that begin to populate the tank...pods, bristle worms, and if you're lucky, a hitchhiker or 2. Don't miss out on this stage of your tank...it's very interesting and doesn't last very long.
Next comes the clean up crew (brown diatoms will appear on the sand and rock...don't panic about that). Clean up crew will clean things up nicely.
Once you put livestock in, the flashlight dance is a thing of the past. Can't flash a light in the face of a snoozing fish...that would be rude!!

Have your own test kits available, and do these things on your own. You'll be happy you did.
Welcome to SWF.com
Lisa

 

[cameronladd]

I have noticed that there has been some brown algae lately, I have even seen those hitchhikers, about 2 of them. I also think there was some hermit crabs living in the live rock I got bc I have seen some of them. The most surprising thing I have seen though is a small white serpent starfish crawling on the wall. Thanks again for all your insights in to this and anymore advice is always appreciated.

 

[wattsupdoc]

If you would read and understand his/her posts, the tank has already been set up for 6 weeks. It is very likely that the beneficial bacteria is intact, it just needs a better population. This is why I recommended ghost feeding and testing DAILY.

Again, the LR and LS ARE the filter there's no need to get another one. Just be sure you have some good flow in there. What kind of skimmer do you have? They are not all made equal, but this isn't the cause for you loosing fish.
Don't do any water changes until you are sure the bacteria is intact. No need to use a shrimp, you can just use fish food if you like. Nitrates may not just go away on their own. This will take more time and will be dependant on a few things. If you have nitrates at the end, do water changes to lower them.

 

[naclh2o nut]

14
Doc,
I/we understand that LR/LS is a filter. But is 40# of LR enough to handle a 55 that was introduced a clown, hermit, etc.. in a week. My thought on LR was it takes time to build up enough bene bac.

I am just letting a newbie know that most people have other forms of filters. Do you still have the two 29 gal. fuge/ and sump? I like the sunp for its abailty to catch and hold excess food, waste, suspended matter in the floss. Then a place to add more filtration, skimmers, equipement, etc...
cameronladd,
Have you ever seen any ammo, nitrite, nitrates? You said that the tests came back fine. Can you explain what fine means? IMO you should verify that you have gone through your cycle then look at a sump, HOB(min) and/or fuge. Then proceed with cation.

You will get many opinions here and you have to go with one that works for you. No one knows it all, and I am probably just a step ahead of you, but miles behind others. So lets listen and learn and most important have FUN.

PS. water changes after cycle is complete.

 

[tang4me]

Originally Posted by cameronladd
http:///forum/post/2964771
Waiting seems like a good idea. I have read that putting a piece of dead shrimp can help cycle your aquarium too, is this true? Also, I shouldn't do anymore water changes??
Thanks again for all the help you guys
Your going to find a lot of different opinions of how to set up and run a saltwater tank in these threads. People have there own opinions of what has worked best for them, but it can get confusing to someone new to saltwater. We all have gone through it.
Your fish died from an ammonia/nitrite spike. Your LFS had you adding fish to soon before your tank had completed it's cycle. That is why things got off to a rough start. Doing water changes before the cycle had been completed just made matters worse. You don't want to start water changes until the cycle is done. Once your tank completed it's cycle with no Ammonia/Nitrite levels, then you can do water changes to bring down your nitrates. You don't have to have 0 nitrate readings to keep hardy fish. Corals are a different matter. Start with hardy fish like a clown and you will find success.
I believe your tank should well into this process by now, if not done cycling. I like the idea of just adding some small food amounts and see what type of ammonia/nitrite levels you see. If you don't get spikes see what type of nitrate levels you have and start water changes to get them down.
IMO I would add a filtration. It is not going to hurt anything and will only help.

 

[cameronladd]

I guess I will do the shrimp thing, and test throughout the process and after that I will ghost feed my tank for a while. I am just going to wait another 3 weeks or so just to be safe in case my cycling has been harmed by my water changes and fish additions. Thanks again for all the input from you all, and always tips and suggestions are welcome.

 

[tang4me]

Originally Posted by cameronladd
http:///forum/post/2965075
I guess I will do the shrimp thing, and test throughout the process and after that I will ghost feed my tank for a while. I am just going to wait another 3 weeks or so just to be safe in case my cycling has been harmed by my water changes and fish additions. Thanks again for all the input from you all, and always tips and suggestions are welcome.
Now that you understand the cycling process things will get easier from here.

 

[wattsupdoc]

It does take some time for the bacteria to build as long as six weeks for the entire cycle. However, the bacteria amount of bacteria present will only be what can be supported by introduction of organic matter. I suppose is the correct term. In other words if you feed for three fish, there's only enough bacteria to support those three fish. If you are going to add fish, slowly start adding the amount of food to the tank to build the bacteria up.
It's like this, a person can safely add as many fish to his/her display at one time as they like, provided that these fish would be appropriate to the conditions they are being given and the system can support them. So you start cycling, now because there are live things in the rock/sand you don't want to kill them all off with a huge ammo spike. So you just do a normal cycle, two weeks into it, when you see the cycle coming around, you start ghost feeding the tank, while your little fishie buddies are going through a nice QT. Feed every bit and maybe a tad more than what you will expect the fish to be eating when introduced. Now after a little while the bacteria colony grows and eventually becomes big enough to support the fish that are being added. The fish get added and the feeding continues as previously. There is no change that has occurred, additionally you saved your new buddies from being exposed to any ammo, or trites.
The fish he was adding, absolutely what he/she has there is sufficient for those. I would rather see a quality skimmer and good quality water changes than some other form of filtration added to that. Well the sump, fuge would be nice, but that's not at all a necessity. PERIOD. Additionally it would be a good thing to have some method of running chemical filtration, like carbon etc. But again, not a necessity.
I do have my twins, but that doesn't make them necessary, beneficial yes. His thread title and content is help with new tank. The problems he has is not at all associated with his filtration.

 

[naclh2o nut]

19
Well said, Doc.
Get through cycle, then look into the future.