It's easter...got a question

[flower]

I have a question for folks, I know the answer, but wanted to find out if anyone else knows.

If Jesus was killed and placed in the tomb on Friday evening just before dark (good Friday), how can 3 days and 3 nights pass before Sunday morning when the easter folks claim he arose from the dead?

This is not a question of whether or not he rose from the dead.....it's a question of time frame. Discuss.........................

 

[darthtang aw]

Friday morning from 9 to noon was counted as the first day, and noon to 3 p.m. (which was darkened) was considered the first night. Three in the afternoon to sunset was reckoned as the second day, whereas Friday night to Saturday morning constituted the second night. The daylight part of Saturday was the third day, and the night portion to Sunday morning was the third night.
However this is wrong as well since jesus died on a wednesday.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397568/its-easter-got-a-question#post_3543728
Friday morning from 9 to noon was counted as the first day, and noon to 3 p.m. (which was darkened) was considered the first night. Three in the afternoon to sunset was reckoned as the second day, whereas Friday night to Saturday morning constituted the second night. The daylight part of Saturday was the third day, and the night portion to Sunday morning was the third night.
However this is wrong as well since jesus died on a wednesday.

LOL... The last line speaks volumes.

I posed this thread for educational reasons, I love the truth, and even though I am Jewish, I happen to believe Yeshua is indeed the Messiah come. I do not however fall into the great lie of the sun god replacement. Which is why I show always a difference between MODERN Christianity and the original Christians.

The simple fact is that Passover is the Sabbath mentioned in the account, not Friday night, the regular Sabbath (ALL HIGH HOLY DAYS ARE SABBATHS) as is assumed by Christians who don't realize that Yeshua was put to death on Passover. 3pm in the afternoon is not an evening, an eclipse is never considered a night...that concept was a bogus answer given to those who had brains enough to question how Friday evening to Sunday morning could be considered 3 days and 3 nights.

Also Sunday morning BEFORE it was light, is Saturday night after dark. Havdalah (the end of the Sabbath) is when the 3rd star appears in the sky on Saturday evening, ending the Sabbath and beginning of the 1st day of the week. Remember the account is give from a Jewish perspective, and that's the way days are calculated (evening to evening).

Passover falls on the 14th of Nisan, which can occur any DAY of the week. This year it was a Monday for example, just like your Birthday, the day changes but the date remains the same.

Sunday is important to Modern day Christians because Constantine thought the sun god. and Jesus were the same guy...or in some accounts duped the people into accepting his sun god and Jesus as the same to keep control...AKA the names are changed only, so Christians are happy and so are the pagans. Because sunday is so important to the sun god, everything is twisted to fall on that day so it can be called holy.

easter is a pagan holy day to celebrate the fertility goddess, her "holy" symbol is the egg and the rabbit...also any new born critters like chicks. The sun god, her son, shined a prism on her symbol on the vernal equinox and changed the egg to a muli-colored ...thus the easter egg was born. It was celebrated by making all kinds of confections and cakes in her honor.

 

[darthtang aw]

Jesus died near 3 p.m. on Wednesday and was buried shortly before sunset that day. From Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset is one day and one night; from then until Friday sunset is two days and two nights; and from then until Saturday sunset is three days and three nights. Jesus Christ was resurrected at the end of this three-day and three-night period, near sunset on Saturday. Thus He was already risen long before the women came to the tomb before daylight on Sunday morning.

 

[beth]

The ancient Jews didn't go by our 24 timeframe for "days and nights". Also, there are several ambiguous references to the exact timeframe in the New Testament. Therefore, 1st day death (6pm-midnight) 1 day and 1 night. 2nd day=1 day and 1 night (ending at midnight). 3rd day (beginning at 12:01am) 1 night and 1 day.

 

[darthtang aw]

The ancient Jews didn't go by our 24 timeframe for "days and nights".  Also, there are several ambiguous references to the exact timeframe in the New Testament.   Therefore, 1st day death (6pm-midnight) 1 day and 1 night.  2nd day=1 day and 1 night (ending at midnight).  3rd day (beginning at 12:01am) 1 night and 1 day.
It isn't really ambigious when translated properly. Jesus died on a sabbath day and rose on a sabbath day. There were two Sabbaths/holy days during this time period. Most translations now days only list one sabbath day, however there are several older translations that state two Sabbaths. The two Sabbaths at the time were on a Wednesday and Saturday.
During this time, the 24 hour day calendar was viewed by most. As the babylonion empire had created the 12 hour day/night system which was adopted by the greeks well before the birth. This was Roman controlled territory at the time so it is safe to assume the day was 24 hours. Even if it wasn't the egyptian had imparted the more complicated 10 hour day/night system to the jewish people when they were slaves. So suffice to say the difference of 60 or 72 hours wouldn't amount to squat when discussing 3 days 3 nights. The math from friday to sunday would still be wrong.

 

[pezenfuego]

Warning, strong opinion incoming:

My feeling toward the subject is that this is sort of like a situation where you read a book to your child (I'm not comparing the bible to a children's book, bear with me). If you start jabbering on about morality, your kid isn't going to get anything out of it, but if you tell a colorful story with a moral, then suddenly the child understands. I believe the bible is a little bit like that. God exists on a plane that we cannot understand so he gave us this book to help us. The point I am trying to make is that deriving historical accuracy from the bible is a fool's errand. If you do that, you might miss the point.

If things did not transpire exactly as the book claims, does that make the reality any less special? Does it make the story any less compelling or important?

 

[dragonzim]

, I love the truth, and even though I am Jewish, I happen to believe Yeshua is indeed the Messiah come.
Yeah, ask any person who was raised Jewish and they would say that you are a Christian or Jew for Jesus (which is a derogatory term) since the most basic difference between a Jews and Christians is the belief in Jesus as the messiah. The Israeli government doesn't recognize anyone that believes as you do as Jewish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism

 

[snakeblitz33]

I don't believe in the historical accuracy of the Bible, and even doubt the existence of the Jesus that was described in the Bible. I take it at face value, reading it as a not-so-good fiction story, or better yet, a childrens story book.

Debating religious "facts" for "historical accuracy" is a lesson in stupidity.

 

[darthtang aw]

I don't believe in the historical accuracy of the Bible, and even doubt the existence of the Jesus that was described in the Bible. I take it at face value, reading it as a not-so-good fiction story, or better yet, a childrens story book.
Debating religious "facts" for "historical accuracy" is a lesson in stupidity.
You do realize that many of the people and places in the bible have been verified as existing, by other scientific means and historical documents.

 

[beth]

There is no hard scientific evidence (such as a body) to verify the existence of Christ, but I don't think you'd get a 2000 yr world religion out of a figment of imagination. Now whether he was more than a human being is what remains to be seen by some.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///t/397568/its-easter-got-a-question#post_3543777
Yeah, ask any person who was raised Jewish and they would say that you are a Christian or Jew for Jesus (which is a derogatory term) since the most basic difference between a Jews and Christians is the belief in Jesus as the messiah. The Israeli government doesn't recognize anyone that believes as you do as Jewish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism

A Christian yes, but still quite Jewish...MODERN day and age Christian, no...Jews for Jesus folks think Jesus is a god...or equal with god, or some kind of demi-god like Hercules. They use Judaism to compel Jews to come join them....it's a scam to convert Jews to Modern Christianity. I do not believe in the magical prayer, nor that he could be a god of any sort.

I happen to believe the accounts given. To believe Yeshua is messiah, is no different then the folks who think Hezekiah was, or maybe Bar-Kokhba. We Jews believe in the prophecies given from Isaiah and Ezekiel. I do not believe Yeshua is a god, nor part god...There is only One God, and he doesn't share his glory with any other god. Isaiah 42:8.... He alone created all things, and without him was not anything created.

A person is free to form any opinion they wish concerning who they believe messiah to be...the only thing is to remember that there is only ONE GOD. I am not talking about Jesus the demi-god, that Christians have created him to be. However the REAL man was a good rabbi, and I do believe God raised him from the dead and took him. Just like he raised others from the dead, Enoch and Elijah were both taken into the heavens. I believe those accounts as well. I believe the writings of the prophets, sadly I have found few Jews who even bother to read them. Aside from the Haftarah portion, the books are largely never read at all...just those sections.


The reason I have formed the opinion that I have is based on the prophecy of the nations coming to know God, and his name one. The two sticks representing Judah and Ephraim being reunited.... I believe he ushered that era in, but the fulfillment of the prophecy wasn't instant...time has passed to bring all of the prophecies into fruition...including the ones about the people following falsehood. Lots of things are still shaping up, Yeshua started a motion into action...we can look at history and see things take shape. If it keeps going the way it seems to be shaping up to go, I think he will be Messiah promised when he returns. He promised to return, like I said, I believe the account.


I happen to be convinced the guy was genuine. For example: When he was asked what was the most important commandment...his answer was...hear O Israel, the Lord your God, the Lord is ONE. Mark 12:29...it's the shema we recite every morning and evening to remind us to never forget...there is ONLY ONE GOD. His response in that passage by the way was taught to him by another rabbi, he didn't pen the saying, it may have been Gamaliel but I'm not sure. There is but one God, and to love your neighbor as yourself hinges all the law and the prophets. It's taught to every little kid learning about the law...the first 4 commandments deal with man's relationship with God, and the last 6 deal with how people should behave toward each other.

Note: This discussion does not concern those who don't believe...Snake, and Pez (at least you tried to be nice). There nothing in my opinion, more stupid then a person who has no faith, you have nothing to bring to the table...go away. Those of us who happen to believe the account given can examine the books all we want, and we should not have to put up with folks calling us stupid for doing so. Now go dissect a monkey bone finger or something, and call it your genetic grandpa. Go argue that stupidity among yourselves... I promise to not bother to comment.

 

[pezenfuego]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/397568/its-easter-got-a-question#post_3543793

A Christian yes, but still quite Jewish...MODERN day and age Christian, no...Jews for Jesus folks still think Jesus is a god...or equal with god, or some kind of demi-god like Hercules. They use Judaism to compel Jews to come join them....it's a scam to convert Jews to Modern Christianity.

I happen to believe the accounts given. To believe Yeshua is messiah, is no different then the folks who think Hezekiah was, or maybe Bar-Kokhba. We Jews believe in the prophecies given from Isaiah and Ezekiel. I do not believe Yeshua is a god, nor part god...There is only One God, and he doesn't share his glory with any other god. Isaiah 42:8.... He alone created all things, and without him was not anything created.

A person is free to form any opinion they wish concerning who they believe messiah to be...the only thing is to remember that there is only ONE GOD. I am not talking about Jesus the demi-god, that Christians have created him to be. However the REAL man was a good rabbi, and I do believe God raised him from the dead and took him. Just like he raised others from the dead, Enoch and Elijah were both taken into the heavens. I believe those accounts as well. I believe the writings of the prophets, sadly I have found few Jews who even bother to read them. Aside from the Haftarah portion, the books are largely never read at all...just those sections.


The reason I have formed the opinion that I have is based on the prophecy of the nations coming to know God, and his name one. The two sticks representing Judah and Ephraim being reunited.... I believe he ushered that era in, but the fulfillment of the prophecy wasn't instant...time has passed to bring all of the prophecies into fruition...including the ones about the people following falsehood. Lots of things are still shaping up, Yeshua started a motion into action...we can look at history and see things take shape. If it keeps going the way it seems to be shaping up to go, I think he will be Messiah promised when he returns. He promised to return, like I said, I believe the account.


I happen to be convinced the guy was genuine. For example: When he was asked what was the most important commandment...his answer was...hear O Israel, the Lord your God, the Lord is ONE. Mark 12:29...it's the shema we recite every morning and evening to remind us to never forget...there is ONLY ONE GOD. His response in that passage by the way was taught to him by another rabbi, he didn't pen the saying, it may have been Gamaliel but I'm not sure. There is but one God, and to love your neighbor as yourself hinges all the law and the prophets. It's taught to every little kid learning about the law...the first 4 commandments deal with man's relationship with God, and the last 6 deal with how people should behave toward each other.

Note: This discussion does not concern those who don't believe...Snake, and Pez (at least you tried to be nice). There nothing in my opinion, more stupid then a person who has no faith, you have nothing to bring to the table...go away. Those of us who happen to believe the account given can examine the books all we want, and we should not have to put up with folks calling us stupid for doing so. Now go dissect a monkey bone finger or something, and call it your genetic grandpa. Go argue that stupidity among yourselves... I promise to not bother to comment.
You might check out Strauss. He wrote a (honestly pretty terrible) book about the life of Jesus Christ and it was called..."The Life of Jesus Christ." He attempted to apply critical history to the Bible. Naturally, he didn't do too well because there are inconsistencies (not a problem unique to the bible, but to almost every history book). Sure, there are consistencies as well, but I am proposing that it doesn't matter because that isn't what is important. If I remember right, he says at one point that Jesus is the idea of good personified. Isn't that beautiful? I believe that history concerns everybody and as I am currently studying the history of Christianity and happen to know more than a little about it, I thought I would chime in on a friendly discussion. I guess I'm the fool for thinking my opinion would be respected and I would be met with neighborly love. As Gandhi would say, I like your Christianity...

 

[beth]

Most Christians don't believe that Jesus was a demigod or a 2nd God. They believe he was God come to earth to impart of himself to mankind. They believe he is one in the same. God came to earth as human to set an example and to relate to humanity. To teach through faith in him, they can achieve salvation and live with him in heaven. Believe me, he is not considered as a 2nd God.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/397568/its-easter-got-a-question#post_3543800
Most Christians don't believe that Jesus was a demigod or a 2nd God. They believe he was God come to earth to impart of himself to mankind. They believe he is one in the same. God came to earth as human to set an example and to relate to humanity. To teach through faith in him, they can achieve salvation and live with him in heaven. Believe me, he is not considered as a 2nd God.


That's not true....Some believe ( I have talked to them and argued with them on their beliefs) that there are 3 that are equal...some believe there are two, and share the same Spirit, some believe he is god himself, as your post seems to indicate...it doesn't really matter, although we could debate the scriptures, which I always enjoy doing. Such debates are a big circle since neither side is willing to change their opinion.

However, I do not believe he is any of them. short and sweet....I believe he was a human man, created by the One God, that he was honored by the One God, and taken up. I am pretty solidly convinced he will be the messiah promised when he comes. I would never call myself a Christian or messianic, since I don't agree with either dogma. To be honest I love the people, I have known really sweet Christians, Messianic and even Islamic....but I detest the religion, and reject it completely.

Pez.... The problem is not the books that are written, it's understanding the words. Rooted in scripture (the first 5 books are the only scriptures, the rest are commentaries) The writings of the prophets are not scripture either, and neither are the writings of the Apostles. Everything ever written after the first 5 books must be compared to them as an acid test...anything that breaks the scripture is rejected. The scripture plainly tells us that some will come and claim other gods and draw the people away... even if they do wonders or their words come to pass, if they teach anything different, they were sent from the adversary by God to test us to see if we whole heartedly follow. Deut. 13

The life of Yeshua is not in question, it's his teachings that have been twisted, I don't know how many times he openly explained that God is his father, and he is going to go to him...and he insisted he was SENT from God. He never ever claimed to be God or a god, not one a single time. The apostles didn't consider Yeshua a god either.

LOL...1 Cor 15:24 Paul writes that in the end Yeshua delivers the kingdom over to God.

Here's a good one... 1 Timothy 2:4-5 .....who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

The point is this, God the creator is the Father of all mankind, there is only one Eyn Sof .... even if folks want to stretch it and call Yeshua the light, as John the Baptist wrote (Zohar teachings).....the light was still the first thing CREATED by God.

The entire "new" testament as it is called.... are eye witness accounts given 30 years after the events...and letters that were written to each other. They are not history books, you can't hang your hat on every word. The words of God are true, but those words are recorded by Moses....The first 5 books contain those teachings.

 

[2quills]

I would argue that they are history books. If the whole point is to record teachings, that is. If you can't hang your hat on all of it then why walk with eyes closed on any of it?

 

[darthtang aw]

Flower, do you make sacrifices as required by old testament tenants to wash away your sins? If not, why not?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/397568/its-easter-got-a-question#post_3543811
I would argue that they are history books. If the whole point is to record teachings, that is. If you can't hang your hat on all of it then why walk with eyes closed on any of it?

LOL...I don't close my eyes to any of it. I say not a history book in the area of keeping a perfect record as things unfolded...the Apostles expected the Messiah to come at any moment, and by the time they realized that time was not as expected, 30 years had passed. So what is recorded are the events that stuck in their minds. I'm not saying that their account was deliberately off, but people who are in the same place at the same time and see the same event, THINK differently and pay attention to different details...or even lose details.

Moses wrote down events while it was very fresh in his mind and in the minds of the people. Human nature has a tendency to embellish as time passes. While I feel that the important events unfolded just as they wrote it, and the teachings I'm confident are in tact. It's the places and dates that may have been jumbled with the telling. The letters and gospels are important, and IMO precious, but not infallible.

So called mistakes are what folks build their entire doctrine of unbelief on. To the point of making being an atheist or agnostic into a religion. If we close our minds and not address the issues that are obviously flawed, we only prove to others that we can't handle the truth. We don't have to defend God ...the real God anyway, can take care of himself, he doesn't need my help or anyone else's to prove a thing.

I think the biggest problem is Western thinking, while they read a very Jewish book. Example: The lion... Christians think of the lion as a kingly beast...in scripture, new and old writings, the lion is the destroyer. To Christians the eagle is a majestic creature, flying high with little effort...in scripture it's a vulture, the bird of death. By lack of the authors understanding and frame of mind, they see the same words, but get an entirely different meaning from what they read. The letters written by Paul are so misunderstood ... Peter even addressed that issue, saying people wrested Paul's letters just as they did scripture to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16

A pagan pattern of understanding is why people who had a tendency to believe in many gods, had no problem turning Yeshua into a god. Even believing in human sacrifice... way back in the year 325 when Constantine created a "Jesus" that never taught the things modern Christians have adopted as his message. The corruption of the teachings began at that time. People are beginning to understand the covenant wasn't done away with...the messianic movement... but they still cling to the Jesus is a god thing, they can't seem to get past it.

Yeshua said he would be be lifted up, like the serpent in the wilderness. John 3:14 That serpent many years later had to be destroyed because the people began to worship it as a god. 2 Kings 18:4 ... Sound familiar?

Christians to this day think Yeshua was telling them the death he would die, which is what happened, but there is a deeper meaning... he was giving a prophecy...that people would do him, just as they did the serpent Moses lifted up. Yeshua never claimed to be a god, but the people are rooted in idolatry. The first commandment is to not have any other gods besides the ONE God. So do the people do??? They decide the One God must be Jesus, since he's a god and there is only One God.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397568/its-easter-got-a-question#post_3543820
Flower, do you make sacrifices as required by old testament tenants to wash away your sins? If not, why not?


We have no Temple, you can't do the sacrifices in just any ole place. They must be done in the place God chose, in the way he taught us to.

The prophecies concerning the 3rd temple will have those sacrifices reinstated. It's nearly midnight...I will elaborate more on this subject if you like. The sacrifices were more then "washing away sin"... most were a "Thank you" gift for something God had done for them, cleansing away their skin disease for example.

Sacrifices were only for those in good standing, if a person was a "sinner" he had to make things right before he could offer a sacrifice.. Yeshua taught the same thing, he said to leave the gift at the altar and go make peace and THEN come and offer the gift. He was talking about the sacrifice. Matt 5:23

LOL...When the people sinned, God never told them to "quick get a sacrifice!" It just didn't work the way, Christians seem to think it did, nor do they understand Yeshua's sacrifice, it was not like an animal sacrifice. It was more like a firefighters sacrifice, who died saving a child from a burning building. If he dies and the child grows up to be an evil person, he died for nothing, but if it the child grows up and does good things for many people...the sacrifice of the firefighter was worth it. Hebrews 10 and John 13.

God does not, nor has ever required a human sacrifice. Pagans believed in human sacrifice, so they assumed that's what Yeshua did, that twist of thought has remained ever since Constantine corrupted the church.

 

[pezenfuego]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/397568/its-easter-got-a-question#post_3543811
I would argue that they are history books. If the whole point is to record teachings, that is. If you can't hang your hat on all of it then why walk with eyes closed on any of it?
I think one would have a hard time proving that the bible is not a history book. I think the same could be said about proving it isn't mythology. But I completely agree, they are history books and they certainly serve an important purpose as such. With that said, history books can have flaws and be wrong sometimes; after all it is written in the plebeian language of man.

Here is another radical concept: the bible is not the word of God. I cannot hold the bible up to my ear and hear God. Preaching; that's where you hear the word of God. It's like life is being breathed into the pages.