it's been 5 weeks and my tank hasn't cycled yet, did I miss it?

[djhir]

Hello, I'm new to the hobby and have a 90 gal. LRFO with 80lbs crushed coral substrate, wet/dry filter, 15lbs base rock and 15lb LR (plan on adding more LR in future). Its been up and running for 5 weeks and I haven't seen any changes in my pH, ammonia, nitrate or nitrites. My LFS said it would take approx. 4-6 weeks to cycle. My LFS also recommended damsels to start the cycling process, so I added a large domino damsel, a med. three-striped damsel, 2 sm. yellow-tailed blue damsels and 2 sm. clowns. About three weeks into it, I started getting a brown algea? substance growing on the rocks and glass (which I found was normal in new tanks) again my LFS recommended getting some blue-legged hermit crabs, so I added 12 little ones which helped quite a bit. I have not done any water changes, just adding water to keep the salinity and water levels maintained. I am using softened well water, hopefully updating to RO water soon. I have also discovered I have little critters living in my substrate which my LFS told me that they are called anthropods? and are a sign of a healthy tank, I told them my tank hasn't cycled and they gave me some "TLC" (live bacteria) to help speed things up, but still nothing. My tank appears to be very healthy and looks good, and I check the chemical levels about every five days with no changes. I don't know where I'm at in the cycling process and after checking the boards about cycling and the recommendations of just adding a shrimp, I don't know if my LFS is leading me in the right direction. Any advice ???

 

[donjasper]

Sounds to me like it's cycled. Once you get the algea bloom - you've pretty much cycled in my limited experience.
Ditto on the crushed coral.

 

[beaslbob]

If you have some fish in there and they have been there for several weeks then you are well on your way. Bout the only thing I would recommend is you continure to take things slowly. And add some plant life (macros or marine plants) if you haven't already.
I definately would not add a shrimp at this point. It may crash your whole system.
I would not worry about doing water changes or using RO/DI water. Just keep replacing the water that evaporates with your existing water and things will be fine.

 

[ophiura]

Originally posted by beaslbob
And add some plant life (macros or marine plants) if you haven't already.
I definately would not add a shrimp at this point. It may crash your whole system.
I would not worry about doing water changes or using RO/DI water. Just keep replacing the water that evaporates with your existing water and things will be fine.
Agreed. Much of this is bad advice. The only good part was the going slow.
Many people have made the mistake of adding macros to a show tank, and live to regret it. They can take over, and can become very difficult to remove. That is not something everyone wants, so it is not good advice to throw out....and I am not really sure why it would be recommended at all without further clarification of what macroalgaes do, and do not, accomplish.
One thing is sure, they DO NOT make up for over stocked or poorly maintained systems.
I would certainly use RO/DI for water changes and for making up any future saltwater. This eliminates any impurities found in your tap water, which can introduce phosphates, silicates and other compounds that can lead to algae problems.
As for the shrimp, well, if the tank is cycled, then it shouldn't crash the system. It would appear the tank is cycled, but an exact nitrate reading will help. How much were you feeding the damsels?
The damsel method is a valid one, though it is losing favor with many as it is rather cruel. Damsel fish should be fed very heavily during a cycle, if that is the route chosen. Once the ammonia spikes to a certain level, feeding is cut back to a bare minimum. If not, the tank may not have been challenged or pushed hard enough.
Are you going to trade the damsels in? If you are (and I recommend it), I would probably try to push the tank without the fish in it (though it can be done with them in there). If the tank is properly cycled, then the addition of raw shrimp should not result in a significant ammonia spike....if it does, the tank wasn't cycled.
I would rather test this with a shrimp, then with the first long awaited fish. Whether you use a shrimp, or new fish, if the tank isn't cycled, it will. I would suggest trying to challenge it futher to be sure, but that is my opinion. Otherwise, stock it very slowly and be sure to keep feeding light.
Fish food and fish are equivalent to raw shrimp when it comes to creating ammonia. But the difference is usually lots of $$ and the life of the fish.

 

[djhir]

thanks for the advice, I was not planning on adding any plant life at this time and from everything I've read and what you said, I still plan on using RO/DI water for my water changes.
I checked the chemical levels again today and my ammonia hasn't changed at .022, nitrite was non-detectable but my nitrate level is now at 20.0.
I feed the damsels twice a day alternating with pellets, flakes and frozen brine shrimp. About the substrate, I was mistaken, its 50% cc and 50% aragonite if this matters.
I did go to another FS and asked them what they thought and the person there said it sounded like it had cycled also.
I appreciate all your advice and wish that I had checked this site out before starting my tank, instead of doing everything my LFS recommended. I wasn't too crazy to hear that -in their opinion- damsels were sacrificial and they made it sound like this was the best way to cycle a tank. But I guess it makes sense for them to tell us that, since putting a shrimp in a tank to cycle it won't sell fish. I am planning on trading some of them back but plan on keeping the clowns when I am ready for more fish.

 

[1journeyman]

Damsels can also be very territorial so they sometimes aren't the best fish to keep.
Not sure why pet stores treat damsels like feeder guppies. They are pretty and smart little fish, just not the best ones for aquariums, IMHO.
john

 

[mike19881956]

wow im about to start cycling my 90 gallon im gona take the raw shrimp route then wait for awhile (taking readings of course) then how many fish should i add at a time?

 

[kingsman39]

My tank has crushed coral substrate. Is there any way to phase in sand?

 

[thomas712]

Originally posted by beaslbob
I definately would not add a shrimp at this point. It may crash your whole system.
I would not worry about doing water changes or using RO/DI water. Just keep replacing the water that evaporates with your existing water and things will be fine.
Once again I disagree with this advice, please do not follow those instructions.
Think about it, not doing water changes is like putting a bag over your head and trying to breath the same air all day long.
Its kinda funny I've added live shrimp to my system and they lived, also fed them shrimp and my system never crashed because of it.
Every village has one
Thomas

 

[beaslbob]

djhit: sorry about any confusion here. When you talked about the shrimp method of cycling I thought you meant adding a dead shrimp. My fear was that a dead shrimp could outstrip the bacteria's capability to process waste and you would lose the 8 damsels in your tank. LIve shrimp would be fine.
I don't know how long the damsels have been in the tank or how much your nitrAtes have risen. I also do not trust ammonia kits especially at the low values. Ammonia should be 0.0. If you just added the fish like last week and have not noticed a nitrItes spike, I would keep watching nitrItes. If they spike then stop feeding the fish until they come back down. that should only take a day or two.
My suspection is that nitrAtes have risen do to the addition of the livestock and the actions of your cleaner crew eating the algae. Use of ro/di water in a 10% water change will change 20ppm to 18ppm. then from 18 to 16.8 and so on. the never will reach 0.0. By contrast my 20g long macro algae culture tank went from 160++ppm to 0.0 in three weeks. that was with no (other) filtration, no circulation, no RO/DI water, no water changes, using tap water to replace water that evaporates, and only a small molly for livestock. Use of plant life during the last 5 weeks would have resulted in your nitrAtes approaching 0.0 by now.

 

[ophiura]

Originally posted by djhir
I checked the chemical levels again today and my ammonia hasn't changed at .022, nitrite was non-detectable but my nitrate level is now at 20.0.

Based on the description of your feeding during the cycle, the live rock and filtration you have, and your nitrate levels, I would say the tank is cycled. Remember to stock slowly, however, as sudden increases in bioload will still mean the biological filter will be forced to 'catch up." You never want to have to be in a catch up situation.
As an aside, what test kits do you use? There are some that seem to read that ammonia is present when it is not really...has your LFS detected this same amount?