Just built a refugium!....but need your advice now!

[johnnysalt]

Thanks to you guys (and looking at a few refugiums online and at my lfs) I built a refugium out of an old 10 gallon tank and some plexiglass from Home ***** ($15) used as the two dividers. Ok, I have a new 100 gallon tank (100lbs lr) that is doing ok....all levels good except for the high nitrates...you don't EVEN want to know how high it is! Because the tank is in our living room and the Little Giant pump for the sump is WAY too loud for that area, we are not using it anymore and are going to use the refugium instead to help with the nitrates. I know there are some who don't use a sump also. I have the overflow box and will also use an amiracle skimmer with the refugium. Above or beside-the-tank type of refugiums sound easier, but that is not an option for us.....only below-the-tank. Plans so far, overflow box to skimmer in first chamber, then water overflows into center with 4" ls/lr rubble/caulerpa, then overflows to last chamber to be returned to tank. NOW: Since I'm not the best planner, I need advice on how to get the water flowing correctly through the refugium....NEVER used the wet/dry with ANY success at all, so start "from scratch" with me please. Thanks!
1. Do I HAVE to have a mag-drive type of pump? Will an average powerhead work?
2. If my goal is not to have ALOT of flow through it, how do I regulate that from the overflow on down and throughout the refugium?!
3. Is what I'm trying even POSSIBLE?!
4. What about power outage? HELP!!
Thanks in advance you guys....Y'all are the BEST!!
[ July 20, 2001: Message edited by: JohnnySalt ]

 

[mrclown]

powder blue can you send a picture of your refugiums to me I will like to see what it looks like. mrclown

 

[johnnysalt]

It looks almost identical to
this one... except that the two dividers are higher so I can get more sand/rock/caulerpa in the limited space. Also, I drilled holes in the dividers so the water would flow into the center section without having to OVERflow into it. If you have Internet Explorer, right click on the refugium pic on the above site and choose "Zoom In"...much better detail that way!

 

[tanker newbie]

if you really wanna lower your nitrates, then what i might sujest is you take the hose from the over flow, and split it into 2 smaller ones, have one hose go into the sump, then build a special refumge with culepra then use a syphon from the refugum into the sump

 

[jimi]

It will be almost impossible to use the refugium as a sump. They flow rate will be too high in the refugium and if you use too small a pump for a slow flow rate your tank will be drastically undercirculated.

 

[johnnysalt]

Ok you guys...to some, thanks for your input so far.
Jimi, you said my tank will be drastically undercirculated. Again, I know that alot of people don't even use sumps or anything else, just maybe a hang-on filter/skimmer. You said the flow rate will be too high....ok, then how does one control flow rate? Still very new to the "equipment" part of this, sorry.
And tanker newbie, obviously I said that I did NOT want the sump at all b/c of it being so loud.
Again, look at
this setup and you will see there is NO SUMP anywhere to be found. I know there is a way to do it, but I can't tell from this person's picture above...nor is there an email address on the page.
Someone can help me out there! Thanks again so far you guys...

 

[nm reef]

I've recently added a refugium and even though its a gravity return I may be able to help.....I did not want to use a sump type set-up and decided to only use a low flow type refugium set-up.....I've got several ph's in the display tank for circulation.....the flow rate thru my refugium is approximately 70-75 gals per hr......if you can adjust your return rate(even though you are pumping vs gravity return....you should be able to adjust your return rate to handle the overflow.....when I was considering options I briefly looked at a return pump rated slightly higher than the refugium flow rate then would use a ball valve type set-up to regulate the return to match the flow....should work.........mine balances very nicely........return matches flow rate into the refugium........I'm sure you could regulate yours the same

 

[dburr]

Try a ball valve on the return and drain. You can get any volume of water flow up to the size of your pump. You will have to adjust your drain after you adjust the pump side.

 

[johnnysalt]

Thanks dburr and NMreef....good thoughts! Do the rest of you think this is a good idea, and more importantly, is ANYONE running a skimmer and refugium WITHOUT a wet/dry?!
Thanks you guys!

 

[jimi]

Johnnysalt the pictures you refered to are of a 46 gal with and ref/sump that appears to be a 20gal. It is also obviuosly a new set up so dont know if it will thrive but you can see the sand is being pushed upwards to the left from the flow. Now you are talking about double the tank size and half the refugium.

 

[johnnysalt]

How strong of a pump/ph would it take to pump water up about 4 feet?! 700 gph ok?
Thanks!

 

[jimi]

Depends, whats the plan?

 

[johnnysalt]

The plan is to have this below-tank refugium which I built from adding two acrylic dividers into a 10 gallon tank. The left chamber holds the skimmer, water flows through holes halfway up (about 1-2" above the substrate) into the middle chamber with ls/lr/caulerpa, then flows almost to the top and into the last chamber with a rio 2100 to return to tank. I haven't bought the rio yet, so not sure what the max gph will be almost 4' below the tank. At 0' it will pump 700 gph though! Let me know what you think.

 

[broomer5]

Whoa Jonny !
You have no room left for power outages or pump failures.
From your picture and description, you plan to have water running over the slits in the top divider. That means the 10 gallon refugium is full of water under normal operation.
If you lose power, and your overflow begins to drain, your Rio will not be running and you will overflow your 10 gallon tank for sure.
Also, as water enters the first chamber and begins to flow through the holes, it will do so at whatever rate the holes allow it to. But as this water flows into the middle chamber it may not rise all the way up to the top slits, before it's head pressure starts pushing the water back through the holes into the first chamber. I think you'll overflow your first chamber and have a wet carpet.
Have you seen a design like this work or is this a first attempt prototype ?
Does this make sense ?
Brian
[ July 25, 2001: Message edited by: broomer5 ]

 

[broomer5]

Just looked at your picture one more time.
Suppose you start this up with no water in the sump/refugium, and you are adding water to the display tank with a pitcher. As water drains down from the overflow into the first chamber it will begin to fill the first chamber. That water will rise in the first chamber until it reaches the holes, then start filling the second chamber. Water continues to fill the first chamber and flowing into the second chamber, BUT it will never be higher in the second chamber than it is in the first chamber. There aint no way. Water will rise in both the first and second chamber at an equal rate. Maybe it will reach the slits and begin falling into the last chamber and the return pump can pump it back up to the tank, but man I think you are asking for trouble here.
Water will seek it's own level - and this set up will get your floors wet.
Sorry for the brutal comments - Maybe I am missing something here and not understanding what you are wanting to do ?
Brian

 

[jimi]

Johnny like I said before you have half the sump and double the tank as that picture you refered to. It will be next to impossible to have proper turn over (gph) for your tank and still have an effective refugium with a 10 gal on a 100gal tank.

 

[marine qa]

I have the 20g sump referred to in the above pictures. I would not characterize it as a classic refugium, the circulation is to high. I would characterize it as a sump w/a LR/LS/Caulerpa portion. I built it only to hold more LR, caulerpa and equipment without filling my rather small main tank, not for to growing brine shrimp, etc. It is really just an extension of the main tank.
I agree with the above posts. You will have much higher flow rates w/100g/10g sump than my 46g/20gH sump. Further, power outages could be scary with water draining from the main tank.
The sump has been going for 3+ months, and my levels are always great, albeit w/small (3 fish/5 crab) bioload. I do have more LR in the main tank than pictured (now 2lb per/g).

 

[johnnysalt]

Originally posted by Marine QA:
<STRONG>The sump has been going for 3+ months, and my levels are always great, albeit w/small (3 fish/5 crab) bioload.</STRONG>
Marine QA:
How long did it take for the nitrates to go down after adding this sump? Also, I have my email address in my profile....can you email me? I have some more questions for you on construction, flow rate and the "clothe bag" in the first chamber. btw, Thiel says the flow rate should be 1x the content of the refugium. Oh well, great looking setup you have! I'm now in the market for a 20 or 30 gallon instead! Email me when you can!

 

[marine qa]

JohnnySalt, I tried sending an e-mail but my work's new ultra-secure firewall was giving me trouble.
I never had any nitrates after my cycle. The sump and 4+inc LS bed were established before I had any fish. I cycled using raw shrimp and unclured LR.
My 700pgh return pump provides about 550gph w/4 ft of head(distance water travels vertically). This translates to my tank circulating 9x per hour.
The cloth bag and holder was made specifically for this purpose, and I bought them at my Delaware LFS. I cannot give you the name but if you look it up they are the only major Saltwater store in DE.
If you want more info post again and/or try a search under my member number 2057. Other people had questions when I first set it up.
Good luck, it was easy.