level sensors?
- Thread starter dockery07
- Start date
S
starfishjackedme
Guest
Are you running the refugium via an overflow so you need a float valve?
1
10k
Guest
I am currently using a Tsunami AT-1 top off system that could be used for top off or your application. It's easy to use, and reliable so far. Check it out.HTH
http://www.championlighting.com/e/en...g_systems.html
It's at the bottom of the page.
http://www.championlighting.com/e/en...g_systems.html
It's at the bottom of the page.
dockery07
Active Member
I looked at the at1, and the pump saver complement and as I see it, it is used to make sure a tank level doesn't get too low. I'm not sure this is what i want. I'm looking for a way to shut off the pump coming from the main tank when the return pump fails, so I don't flood the house. does this sound like the right application?
1
10k
Guest
Let's see if I'm understanding you . You have a pump coming from the main tank, feeding water to the refugium. Another pump pushing the water back up to the main tank, from the refugium. What your looking for is something to cut off the pump from the main tank to the refugium, in case the pump from the refugium to the main tank fails right? Whew! That's a mouthful!
1
10k
Guest
I'm really trying to figure out why you have a pump pumping water down to your refugium? But, anyway, what you need is the regular AT-1, not the pump saver. The AT-1 works on the principle of, when the water level is too low, it supplies power to a pump. When the water level is too high, it kills the power to the pump. Why not use this system in the opposite way it is meant to be used. If you place the sensor for the AT-1 above the desired water level, which would supply constant power to the pump. When the return pump fails, which hopefully won't happen, the water level in the refugium will rise to the sensor, which will kill the power to the pump. Just hook your pump from the diplay to the refugium into the AT-1, set the sensor at the desired "TOO HIGH" level, and when the water level gets to that point, it will kill the power to the pump. This is all assuming that the refugium is at the same height as the main tank. Otherwise you will create a siphon, and all this work and money will do nothing. The water will flow through the pump, if it's outlet is below the main tank level, causing a flood. If you refugium is below the main tank, you don't need that pump anyway. Gravity will feed the water down to the refugium, and the return pump will feed it back to the main tank. Does that make sense?
dockery07
Active Member
The reason why we have to pump the water down is because the back of the tank is closed. We have all of the filter and skimmer built in. So we dont run a sump. We dont really need a refugium but thought that it would help with pods and water movement. So we are trying to decide if it is worth the trouble. Or if it just is going to look cool but serve no purpose for the most part.
It is still in planing I am sure I will have lots more questions.
It is still in planing I am sure I will have lots more questions.
1
10k
Guest
If you are having to pump water out of the display down to the refugium, you are going to have to go with a mechanical means of stopping that pump. EI a float valve. If you don't break the siphon mechanically, you will still overflow the refugium. Cutting the power to the feeder pump will do just that, kill the pump. It will not stop the downward flow of water. Sounds like your shopping for a float valve, unless you want to try a motorized ball valve, and plug it into the AT-1. Good luck with the DIY..
1
10k
Guest
LOL, most of us know the frustrating feeling. Any more ?'s let us know. Try the equipment/DIY forum. There's more DIY gurus swimming around in there.
eddie g
Member
Hi dockery07.
I'm not sure I read your post correctly. Did you say you are thinking of using two pumps?
I don't think you can use one pump to move water from the main tank to the refugium and another pump to return water to the main tank. I too and trying to set up a refugium. I will be using about a 30 gal rubbermaid under my 165 gal tank. I have read that it is impossible to balance the flow rate between any two pumps. I believe that is why most people without built in overflows have to use an overflow box on the top tank.
Eddie G
I'm not sure I read your post correctly. Did you say you are thinking of using two pumps?
I don't think you can use one pump to move water from the main tank to the refugium and another pump to return water to the main tank. I too and trying to set up a refugium. I will be using about a 30 gal rubbermaid under my 165 gal tank. I have read that it is impossible to balance the flow rate between any two pumps. I believe that is why most people without built in overflows have to use an overflow box on the top tank.
Eddie G
broomer5
Active Member
dockery07
Eddie G has made a very good point.
Is it possible to run two separate pumps ( powerheads ) one in the display tank - one in the refugium.
The answer is yes it's possible - providing someone is there to babysit the offset. There WILL be an offset - meaning even with balancing valves in place - eventually either the tank level will drop over time - or the refugium level will rise.
Or vice versa.
This is a given.
Several ways around it.
1) Babysit the tank and when you see the offset - turn the appropriate pump off to correct the difference.
Not practical at all.
2) Design an eleborate set up of level switches, that measure a high/low bandwidth in the refugium. You set a zone in the refugium that you want to maintain level. Float switches will turn off the appropriate pump to correct for offset - and maintain level within the zone.
Not practical - and lots of possible pieces to fail. If one switch hangs up or contacts do not open/close at right time - wet floor, burned out pump - or both.
3) Install a continuous level probe, like a capacitance probe and use a PID controller to a variable speed modulating return pump.
I could set you up with this equipment for around $1500.00 to $2000.00 bucks.
Ha ! you say ........... next option please.
4) Don't use two pumps to begin with. This will eliminate the entire potential for offset to occur ( besides evaporation offset which happens no matter what we do )
The only practical way that I see doing what you want to do is either.
1) Buying an external overflow, running a drain to refugium tank, and returning the water to the display in the traditional manner.
It's not bullet proof - but it's by far the most reliable.
Providing you size the overflow to the return pump correctly.
2) Place an acrylic refugium "above" the display tank on a shelf or stand, drill the top/side of the fuge, and plumb this drilled hole/bulkhead back to the display tank. Pump up water to this fuge - let gravity do it's thing.
Many ways are possible - and I'm sure you are playing out the "what-if" game in your head right now.
What if a pump fails.
If either one fails - trouble.
If both fail at same time - no trouble - but very unlikely.
They do fail to start sometimes - especially the smaller ones that we use to feed a refugium.
Nothing's really impossible with these plumbing issues - if you have the cash and want to design a fool-proof system.
But even fool-proof systems fail.
Too many components - each with some likelyhood of failing, not to mention the additional maintenance of each part.
Easiest most reliable - pump water up - let it fall down.
Eddie G has made a very good point.
Is it possible to run two separate pumps ( powerheads ) one in the display tank - one in the refugium.
The answer is yes it's possible - providing someone is there to babysit the offset. There WILL be an offset - meaning even with balancing valves in place - eventually either the tank level will drop over time - or the refugium level will rise.
Or vice versa.
This is a given.
Several ways around it.
1) Babysit the tank and when you see the offset - turn the appropriate pump off to correct the difference.
Not practical at all.
2) Design an eleborate set up of level switches, that measure a high/low bandwidth in the refugium. You set a zone in the refugium that you want to maintain level. Float switches will turn off the appropriate pump to correct for offset - and maintain level within the zone.
Not practical - and lots of possible pieces to fail. If one switch hangs up or contacts do not open/close at right time - wet floor, burned out pump - or both.
3) Install a continuous level probe, like a capacitance probe and use a PID controller to a variable speed modulating return pump.
I could set you up with this equipment for around $1500.00 to $2000.00 bucks.
Ha ! you say ........... next option please.
4) Don't use two pumps to begin with. This will eliminate the entire potential for offset to occur ( besides evaporation offset which happens no matter what we do )
The only practical way that I see doing what you want to do is either.
1) Buying an external overflow, running a drain to refugium tank, and returning the water to the display in the traditional manner.
It's not bullet proof - but it's by far the most reliable.
Providing you size the overflow to the return pump correctly.
2) Place an acrylic refugium "above" the display tank on a shelf or stand, drill the top/side of the fuge, and plumb this drilled hole/bulkhead back to the display tank. Pump up water to this fuge - let gravity do it's thing.
Many ways are possible - and I'm sure you are playing out the "what-if" game in your head right now.
What if a pump fails.
If either one fails - trouble.
If both fail at same time - no trouble - but very unlikely.
They do fail to start sometimes - especially the smaller ones that we use to feed a refugium.
Nothing's really impossible with these plumbing issues - if you have the cash and want to design a fool-proof system.
But even fool-proof systems fail.
Too many components - each with some likelyhood of failing, not to mention the additional maintenance of each part.
Easiest most reliable - pump water up - let it fall down.