Lionfish Health

[jon321]

I have a radiata lionfish that is the sole inhabitant of a 20g tank. It is about 1.5" long and Ive had it about 6 months. Recently, in the last month, its "horns" have started to curl, some of its fin rays are shorter than the others like they have been cut, and there is algae growing on the fins, spines, and horns. It appears to shed this growth of algae periodically. It has been eating frozen food for a good 5 months Ive had it, but will only eat supermarket shrimp. Water quality isnt perfect, SG and nitrates are a little high , but nothing I havnt had fish flourish in. Hermits, snails, and lr hitchhikers are unaffected. Does anyone know what might be up? I do recall my volitan lions horns curling then falling off as it grew, but that happened when it was around 7-8" not 1.5".
thanks for any input.
Jon

 

[v-lioness]

Water quality isnt perfect, SG and nitrates are a little high , but nothing I havnt had fish flourish in.
The radiata requires top water quality, the longer this lion stays in water that is even a little off, the more susceptible it becomes to disease.
Recently, in the last month, its "horns" have started to curl, some of its fin rays are shorter than the others like they have been cut, and there is algae growing on the fins, spines, and horns.
This sounds like fin rot, which is not all that uncommon in lions, many times lions are susceptible to fin rot during shipping, because of poor water quality. **Move this lion into quarantine and Treat with antibiotics.
It appears to shed this growth of algae periodically.
Lions can shed their skin (Cuticle), you may see a whitish film floating in your tank, this can be a sign of improper health, parasites or poor water quality. You may have noticed your Volitan doing this at times also.
It has been eating frozen food for a good 5 months Ive had it, but will only eat supermarket shrimp.
These lions can be picky eaters, I would try adding Crab from the market along with the shrimp. If you are unable to get your lion eating other foods you can inject the shrimp with vitamins, frozen rotifers and/or cyclopezee.
I thaw my shrimp in a container with tank water and than my rotifers and cyclopezee with a few drops of vitamins in a shot glass, I do not add tank water to this mix. I cut the shrimp into bite size pieces, take my other mix, place it in the syringe than inject the shrimp. I find shrimp and scallops hold the mixture, than just feed. I also do this with antibiotics when I do not want to remove a lion from the display tank.
Hope this helps,
Kaye

 

[jon321]

Very helpful indeed. I do not think it is fin rot or anything of that nature. Ive seen finrot before and its definitely not that. Mabe if I try and take a pic that shows the symptoms it will help. It is still very active, looks good, and eats aggressively.
By not perfect water quality I ment not sps reef conditions, everything is quite suitable for fish only, nitrates range from 10-30, but in the past Ive kept volitans in tanks with nitrates off the chart and they were with me for nearly a decade.
As for feeding, the problem is since its so small, it can only eat what amounts to little more than a sliver of meat. There is no way your injecting anything into a peice of shrimp that is transparent its so small. I used to soak it in zoe, but the lion would usually reject it. Would feeding live, freshwater ghost shrimp that are fed a varied diet be better than simply supermarket shrimp? I can do that as I have 100's of them left over from when I was weaning.
Jon

 

[v-lioness]

The Radiata needs the SPS water quality, it requires Perfect water conditions unlike a volitan. A picture would be helpful if you can get one........
You can feed the ghost shrimp to the lion if they are small enough, just feed them foods that are nutritional just before feeding them to your lion. You can do this plus the raw shrimp as long as the lion does not just go back to the live foods. That's a tough call since it is on frozen already.
Kaye

 

[jon321]

Heres some pictures:

Its just the one ray on either side is much shorter than the rest. It was not always like this. Also the horns are kind of both bent to the side. I thought it might be because he loves swimming back and forth against the glass and does this for hours. Ive had puffers that had a flat face because they swam so much against the glass! Just making sure.
I will move him to a 10g tank tonight where I can maintain perfect condition easier and make sure he is getting plenty of food and see if anything changes. Other than those 2 'problems' he looks in perfect condition. Actively eats, moves around, has nice colors, and swims upto the front glass whenever you enter the room.
Jon

 

[v-lioness]

It is hard to tell from the pic's, Could your lion be catching the fins on the rock and tearing them? I know my dwarfs & Volitans have both torn fins on the rock. I am not sure if the radiata will lose the Ocular Projections (horns) like the volitan, and being so young. I would definitely move this lion to pristine water and see if it helps considering how sensitive this lion is to water quality.
Kaye

 

[jon321]

Since he is so small Ive moved him to a 5g tank for quarentine. Ill be able to do daily water changes this way and maintain perfect conditions.
Could he be damaged by aiptasia? I like the look of it and its a fowlr so I let the aiptasia go while and there are 100's of polyps in the tank. Some of them larger than the lionfish. There are also lots of pods, bristleworms, and tiny brittle stars. Well see what happens.
Jon

 

[unleashed]

if hes as small as i think he is you may also concider purchasing small silverslides ,mysis shrimp,frozen krill.other marine fish foods just cut them up smaller for his liking,i have always soaked all of my fish foods in garlic extreme and selcon prior to feeding.selcon i found to much better suppliment for fish than zoe it contains amino acids(marine lipids)200 mg vit B12 (200mg) and vit c 200 mg per every 1 mil dosed.both can be dosed directly to the tank for fish that are not good eaters..small peices of food if not stick feeding i poured into the tank into the flow of a powerhead to creat lifelike movement.this tends to give the fish a sense of a hunt provoking him to eat it

 

[jon321]

He does not need to be stick fed, he will eat it straight out of the water. The problem is he usually spits out anything but his favorite market shrimp. A bottle of selcon is in the mail!
Jon

 

[jon321]

Ive gotten some much better pictures. They are both from the side, so its hard to see the bending, but they are curled downward, and bend to the right. Any input? Is it health related? or just normal 'wear and tear'? The pictures really show how small the lion is, that is your typical pencil eraser sized blue leg hermit next to the lion...and its easily twice as big as when I purchased it!

thanks,
Jon

 

[nonphotosynt]

I.5" after 6 months? It's horrible.
I don't have radiata, but have the close relative - antennata. Just posted photos in another thread , at arrival and 5 months later.
Mine refused to eat anything, but alive and moving food (had no problems with weaning volitan), it was half-dried from starvation in the first weeks, almost no body, eyes and fins only. What improved his health immediately - the small blue-green chromises, half of his size, added to the tank. I couldn't imagine that they will fit in. But: next day he slept and then started to have a fuller body and grow. Now is 4", excluding tail. Chromises, that were left, were moved to another tank.
Now it's eating exclusively ghost shrimp, fed in turn by SW shrimp and fish, 3-4 shrimp x 2 times daily. I'm not advising this, but I have no choice and you can see results.
Tank is comparable by conditions with yours, as you can see, only no sand and it's 90g. Ammonia, nitrites - zero, nitrates - 20 ppm (were 40), phosphates - up to 0.5 ppm even with PhosGuard. Have a messy eaters there, 3x daily feedings.
If you value this fish, try to feed it more.
I'm almost hearing "Easy for you to say..."

BTW, I always wanted radiata, but never seen them is sale.

 

[jon321]

Thats a very beautiful antennata lion you have. My lion has doubled in size in the 6 months Ive had it, believe it or not, but I got it at about 3/4"! It was absolutely lost in the 10g quarentine tank. I feed it every other day like clockwork. When its hungry, it starts swimming around the front glass. As you can see in the picture, it looks very healthy, so I have no idea whats wrong.
Jon

 

[nonphotosynt]

I really would like to help, but my fish had never anything like that.

If it was a human, I would say (again): feed more frequently, it's a small child, too young to be fed not every day, and more variety in food. Also, by human analogy, anything related to the bones could be at least partially helped by variety in a diet, calcium, phosphorus, vitamins A and D. Don't give it anything human, though.

Could be that the monotonic food, that he gets, lacks something? Or it is a freshwater shrimp?
May be worth to try salmon (in some stores here it's not expensive) or a frozen krill from a freezer in a saltwater fish store - it's just like grocery shrimp, only the whole animal, more useful for the fish health. One package will last for a very long time. And any enriched food from LFS (mysis, ocean plankton) has vitamins and additives that could be lacking your lion. Even here, where I am, it's $5 a month (1 package, 30 cubes, for your baby it will last twice longer).

But - I'm only one year with SW fish.
VolitanLioness is much more experienced and knowledgeable with keeping, feeding and treating the sick fish, including lions.