Lionfish not eating and listless? Help

[stinkybeee]

We have two lionfish and a triggerfish in a relatively new tank (about four months). About two weeks ago the lionfish started to become listless and went off their food. There are no visible signs of illness other than these. The water quality is very good now, but when they became ill there were high nitrates which we have since corrected. They started to eat again in small amounts but one of them seems disorientated. A couple of days ago they stopped eating again. The triggerfish has been fine throughout. Any ideas what is wrong? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Stewart

 

[stinkybeee]

We were feeding them every two days on frozen lancefish, mussel, cockle, some squid (defrosted obviously) in rotation. They were always keen to eat and consumed their food immeadiately. We feed the Niger triggerfish every day mainly on frozen lancefish and squid, although we do also feed some fresh fish (saltwater fresh fish) occasionally. They are in a 75 gallon tank (which may sound small if you are american, in the UK that is one of the largest tanks and we have it stocked to 50% of the suggested rate). Since they have been ill we have performed 4 20-25% water changes. We changed 25% of the water 5 days ago and 20% last night. The nitrates are down to 10ppm after going up to about 100ppm when part of our filter failed two and a half weeks ago. There is no ammonia or nitrite in the tank, although as you say this may not be absolutely accurate as we have used hobby testing kits.
Our LFS advised us when they first became listless to start soaking the food in vitamin supplement as lionfish can go blind without the appropriate vitamins. We hadn't time to start this before they stopped eating.
The fish appear slightly darker in colour than they were previous to the nitrate problem, and we have read that this along with the other symptoms match nitrate posoning. However we cannot find anymore information on the prognosis or treatment required if this is the case.
We are very concerned that the fish are going to die if they don't start eating again. How long can lionfish survive without eating? They went about 10 days at first and then ate for two days and have now been off their food for coming up for three days.
We are novices so would appreciate any help.

 

[stinkybeee]

I'm sorry I forgot to say how much we are feeding them. The liofish get about 1 1/2 - 2 lancefish or cockles (or the equivalent) each per feed (every other day) and the triggerfish gets 1 - 1 1/2 lancefish per feed (daily) or the equivalent in another food.
They are volitan lionfish, both about 6-7 inches in length. The triggerfish is about 5 inches in length.

 

[fmarini]

Hi:
If your water quality is back to normal, then i would say lets focus on the foods+ water quality. Have you had noticed anything funny w/ the food recently?
You say the lion went off feed for 10days and then went back on, did this correlate w/ you changing the water and decreasing the pollutants?
The lion being dark colored and listless is a bad sign. Does he respond to live foods?
I would continue to do water changes to ensure your water quality stays up and see if the lion will eat. Do you notice anything going on w/ the lions eyes or fin coloration, any cloudiness or reddness? does the lion yawn frequently or do you notice cuticle shedding (slime production)
I've had lions go for 10-2 week w/o food and as long as their body condition stays good then its okay, in your situation since the animal has become anorexic once before I would say try to get it to eat-it might be low on body reserve. IME the problem w/ lions is almost always nutrition.
Do you have a quarentine tank?

[hr]
Stinkybee please ignore

[hr]
Terry-what do you think about a prophylatic treatment w/ nitrofurazone and neomycin just in cases it some type of sublcinical infection.
Alternatively goiters or GI impaction?

[hr]
frank

 

[stinkybeee]

They have been yawning. We do not have a quarantine tank but could arrange to move our triggerfish out of the tank to our fish shop temporarily.
Not sure about any other physical symptoms, will check and post back.
Thank you for your help

 

[stinkybeee]

The fish starting to eat did correspond with the initial nitrate drop when we changed the water, although it took four water changes to get the nitrates back down to 10ppm. It probably corresponded to them dropping to 20ppm after the first couple of water changes. We initially thought the problem was the poor water quality until they went off their food again. They were still listless however even when they started eating again.
We have not tried live foods and really do not want to if it is possible to avoid it.
We haven't noticed anything funny about the food, although it may have defrosted and been refrozen as it was bought a long distance away.
Their eyes do not appear particularly cloudy and there isn't any obvious fin discolouration although they are definately darker in colour.

 

[stinkybeee]

Our test kits expire in 2005, they have been open for just uder four months and say on them they obtain best results in the first year after opening. After all the testing lately they will run out soon anyway so we will go today and get a ones to double check.
We use mains water which has no nitrites, no ammonia but 8ppm nitrate and do a 25%/19 gallon water change each week. We add water conditioner to remove any other elements such as chlorine etc. We keep asking our fish shop about reverse osmosis units but they seem to think it is unnecessary unless the nitrates are persistantly above 50ppm or it is an invertebrates tank.
We have never fed live food since our fish shop quarantined the fish and got them onto frozen foods for us, hence the unease about it, although we will try as soon as they show interest.
We will try the treatment you advised and let you know about the new test kit results.
Thank you very much for your help, it is greatly appreciated.

 

[stinkybeee]

OK, we have just completed the second treatment of the antibiotic and have thrown away our old food and ordered gamma-iridated food through our fish shop for the lionfish. We have checked the nitrates with a new test kit and there is definately no problem with the water. The lionfish appeared to be lightening in colour over the last few days. We did another 25% water change today using Instant Ocean salt this time, which we were advised to change to from Kent and during this we noticed the lionfish have white spots ( a dusting of small spots ) across their bodies and fins. (What next??)
They are not scratching or panting, the triggerfish is still fine. We have a UV steriliser. We have not added anything to the tank other than the antibiotic and the new water (we changed the water between the two treatments to keep the nitrates down). The lionfish are moving about while the lights are out, but not as much as they did prior to becoming ill. They still have not eaten despite our best efforts. Triggie (our ground breaking name for our Triggerfish) is swimming about fine and has no symptoms.
We are aware that white spots are generally whitespot (ich) or marine velvet. Can this have got into our tank without the introduction of a fish? (The tank has been stocked for over four months now without any introductions) It is 10.15pm here and there is no chance of getting to our fish shop until it opens at 9am tomorrow. Any ideas what we should do in the meantime?
We do not have a quarantine tank but could improvise if you think this would be wise, we have two 6 gallon containers (plastic not glass), and two spare heaters. We have read on here that freshwater baths are not a good idea, we have some bicarbonate of soda (sodium carbonate) so could do one. Don't know what to do!

 

[stinkybeee]

We've learnt our lesson on the quarantine tank don't worry, will be the next investment. I've read a lot on hyposalinity on this message board so will start that tomorrow when we can get a more accurate hydrometer. They are not producing any significant mucus.
Is it best to move our triggerfish out of the display tank tomorrow (we could arrange to treat him separately with the hyposalinity) since he has no symptoms at the moment, or should we just treat them all together?
The anti-biotic we used was not the one you suggested as that is not available in the UK. It was an anti-internal bacteria antibiotic.
It is a fish only tank, ie no live rock/sand etc, just fish.
I'm sorry to ask a question that has probably been answered a million times before (unfortunately can't search for ich on this forum as hasn't got the minimum four letters!), but how has ICH got into our tank? Has it been there all along and only become a problem now that the fish are stressed?
Thank you very much for all the help you have given us, it really is appreciated.