Live Rock question

drewdog82

drewdog82

Member
I have had my tank up and running for 2 months. Unfortunatelly I was told that in a fish only tank, you should not use live rock or live sand. I really had wanted too, but I took their advice and made a tank of artificial coral and non-live rock. Knowing what I know now, I feel I made a big mistake. I am trying to figure out a way to turn this into a tank with either live rock, live sand, or both. My tank is 55 gallons and has 7 fish and 1 hermit crab. The fish are 2 chromis, 2 percula clowns, a small valentini puffer, a small purple tang, and a mandarin fish. (All my fish are still small). My idea would be to move these fish into my other 30 gallon unused tank and then start over my 55 gallon tank with live rock......
1) Is this a possible plan or is there no way?
2) If it is possible, would you suggest only doing live rock or doing live rock and live sand?
----I currently have crushed coral at the bottom
3) How much live rock and what type would you suggest?
4) I have a blue actinic light, if I got live rock and sand would I need more powerfull light?
5) With live rock, would you suggest a protein skimmer?
6) Can you keep puffers in a live rock tank?
 
maryd

maryd

Member
I changed out my crushed coral after my tank had been up a while. I removed the live rock and just got a dust pan and started removing the CC and dumping it. Then I added the sand. It took a while for the cloudiness to settle down but it's possible. It took quite some time and does help to have someone else help you. I removed part of the water also and put the fish in a rubbermaid container until the sand had setttled down for a while.
My LFS suggested the CC which I hated, the snails could not move on it and it just retained too much garbage. I like the sand much better.
 
coachklm

coachklm

Active Member

Originally Posted by drewdog82
I have had my tank up and running for 2 months. Unfortunatelly I was told that in a fish only tank, you should not use live rock or live sand(FO)
. I really had wanted too, but I took their advice and made a tank of artificial coral and non-live rock. Knowing what I know now, I feel I made a big mistake. I am trying to figure out a way to turn this into a tank with either live rock, live sand, or both. My tank is 55 gallons and has 7 fish and 1 hermit crab. The fish are 2 chromis, 2 percula clowns, a small valentini puffer, a small purple tang, and a mandarin fish. (All my fish are still small). My idea would be to move these fish into my other 30 gallon unused tank and then start over my 55 gallon tank with live rock......correct all but the ones that need to go back..
1) Is this a possible plan or is there no way?
2) If it is possible, would you suggest only doing live rock or doing live rock and live sand?
----I currently have crushed coral at the bottom
3) How much live rock and what type would you suggest?
4) I have a blue actinic light, if I got live rock and sand would I need more powerfull light?
5) With live rock, would you suggest a protein skimmer?
6) Can you keep puffers in a live rock tank?
you have many problems here to begin with ...
take the manderin back
take the purpl tang back
and take the puffer back
your tank will not support these fish
you can add cured live rock to an established tank... not in large amounts though..
you WILL need a skimmer #1 item in any tank.
1-2lbs of live rock and sand recc. per gallon.
 
mudplayerx

mudplayerx

Active Member
I can't believe your local fish store told you not to have live rock with a mandarinfish. I would never listen to any advice these guys give to you again. Good luck with adding sand and live rock to your tank; you will love it!
 
drewdog82

drewdog82

Member
Do you agree with moving my fish to a 30 gallon tank temporarilly while I put live sand and live rock in my 55 gallon?
 
mudplayerx

mudplayerx

Active Member
Originally Posted by drewdog82
Do you agree with moving my fish to a 30 gallon tank temporarilly while I put live sand and live rock in my 55 gallon?
As long as the 30 gallon in cycled and the water parameters are good. I agree with Coach though, take the tang, puffer, and the mandarin back. Especially the mandarin. These fish are going to die in your tank; the mandarin probably within a month.
 
drewdog82

drewdog82

Member
Why the tang and the puffer? The tang is new, so I don't know how he will do, but the puffer seems to be doing very well. (Valentini puffer-apx. 1in.)
 
sagxman

sagxman

Member
Originally Posted by drewdog82
Do you agree with moving my fish to a 30 gallon tank temporarilly while I put live sand and live rock in my 55 gallon?
I don't see a problem with leaving fish in the tank when adding cured LR. However I agree with the others that some of your fish shouldn't be in your 55 much less a 30. The mandarin eats pods that thrive with the live rock. You cannot put enough live rock in a 55 to support the amount of pods needed to keep the mandarin alive. He will starve very quickly. The puffer and the tang need much more space.
Also, get a lot more crabs as your cleaner crew. 1 hermit will not keep your tank nice and clean.
 
cabin7882

cabin7882

Member
I had a mandarin that my lfs said would wat off the live sand but that was not the case I saw him eating but I guess he needs copepods which are found on LR only. So needless to say when I found this out it was already too late and he had died from malnutrition. I know they are such cool fish and you want to think they're ok but he won't be in a month or so. Sorry:(
 
sagxman

sagxman

Member
Originally Posted by drewdog82
What size tank do you think would be sufficient to have the mandarin, tang, and puffer
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a mandarin needs at least a 100 gallon tank. That tank is sufficient size to hold the LR need to support the pod population.
They are quite deceiving since they are so small. Size is not the issue with this fish. It is the diet and their diet needs a big tank.
 
coachklm

coachklm

Active Member
Originally Posted by SaGxMAN
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a mandarin needs at least a 100 gallon tank. That tank is sufficient size to hold the LR need to support the pod population.
They are quite deceiving since they are so small. Size is not the issue with this fish. It is the diet and their diet needs a big tank.

ok i will correct... it is not the size of the tank that keeps mandarins happy it's the lr or anything used to breed and keep pods if you had a refugium you'd be fine.. as this will keep them safe and feed the tank at a steady rate.
 
N

nereef

Guest
Originally Posted by Pat713
is all live rock and sand a bad thing?
i don't follow :notsure:
 
coachklm

coachklm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Pat713
is all live rock and sand a bad thing?
just the opposite if you dont have a tank that can support a 100lbss of LR
add a refugium for the safe breeding of the pods.
 
mudplayerx

mudplayerx

Active Member
It is not necessarily true that a mandarin needs tons of live rock to stay healthy and get enough pods. However, I think it is a good thing to repeat as I don't want to see these wonderful fish dying of starvation.
If a mandarin is kept with at least 50 pounds of established live rock and a nice sand bed, it will be fine. The key here is not having competition. I have no other fish in my 55 gallon mandarin tank except for 1 small damsel. Having a fully stocked 55 gallon tank along with a mandarin is probably out of the question, especially if you have fish with a similar mouth shape as a mandarinfish.
I'm going on 1 year and 3 months of having a psychedelic mandarin in a 55 gallon tank and he is very healthy and active. I do have two large HOB filters stocked with nylon bags full of live rock bits and live sand so that there is plenty of fuge space for pods to breed. I also do not clean the returns. They are covered in thick algae mats, teeming with pods.
If you notice your mandarin getting skinny, please find it a good home :)
 
murph

murph

Active Member
I agree with Mud that mandarins can do quite well in smaller tanks provided they have little to no competition for food sources.
Here is what I would do in this case. Remove tang and puffer. They will outgrow the tank and the puffer does not fit in with the scheme of the tank anyway if it is to remain a community tank with inverts. If the mandarin is small it is likely he wont prey on adult pods anyway. Search on line and purchase adult pods and a ball of cheato (a macro algae but looks more like a plant). Toss the ball of cheato in right away and add the pods after lights out at the end of the day. The adult pods will live and breed in the cheato and avoid predation there also. There young will keep your mandarin fed. Supplement the mandarins diet with live brine until you can see the juvenile pods on the front glass of your tank during the day. You will need a magnifying glass for this, they are about the size of the period at the end of this sentence.....>. They are pretty much like roaches; when you see one there are probably a hundred more you don't see. Your fish and inverts may feed a bit on the cheato but it should be able to maintain itself.
When you return the puffer and tang complain about the poor advice and tell them you want full store credit to put toward fully cured live rock and start adding it to your tank.
I am not clear from your post what your substrate is. Hopefully sand but if not then you have to consider changing this out also. If that is the case you should be able to siphon out the crushed coral substrate with each water change and add sand in its place. Process could take a month or two. Adding sand to an existing tank can be accomplished with minimal sand storm by sliding sand down to bottom of tank through a length of PVC. Play sand or dry argonite from the LFS will do fine for this. A slow change of the substrate is probably the best rout for this tank anyway as much of the bio filtration is probably in the substrate in this tank due to the lack of LR.
The unused thirty gallon tank you spoke of would be a perfect size fuge for this system. And could probably bet set up with minimal cost. An overflow and return pump would be the major expenses when doing this.
Good luck with your new tank.
 
jonny bolt

jonny bolt

Member
Take the Tang and Mandarin back. I have no idea why people are telling you that you cant have a Valentini Puffer, I must've missed something. But if you're feeding it clams or mussels or something similar atleast once a week along with other regular foods (pellets, krill, frozen foods, etc.), it should be fine. But a Purple Tang really aint right for a 55 lol. And a Mandarin without enough LR (in your case you have none) and a good sand bed is just plain mean.
Take siphon some water from your 55 into your 30, put your fish in there, then add some LR and live sand. When your 55 is ready, put your fish back in. If your buying the LR from a local fish store, then you wont need to recure it. If you buy the LR and live sand online, then your fish will have to stay in the 30 gallon tank LONGER while you re-cure the LR and LS in the 55.
 
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