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sberto

sberto

Member
Hey everyone,

Well a few months ago I posted about my not so well RBTA. And through lots...and I mean lots of reading, it was nursed back to health, and even split a few weeks ago...now I have two nice looking RBTA's in my tank. I posted a picture...the top two are when it wasn't doing so good, the bottom two are it being hosted by "Lily" (daughters named the fish), and you can see the second one in the background. Anyway, I was glad it came back to life and its doing great.

Now, a few more questions for you all.

First, took a quick water test today (and by quick I mean test strips...yes, I know, stop eye rolling I need to get another test kit), however, it showed Nitrate being present. Good? Bad?? wasn't off the chart, but it is present. What are manageable levels for nitrate in a reef tank? (no SPS).

Onto the next, I am building another tank (not personally building but you get the point), to swap this tank as it doesn't fit well into the house. So, I will be upgrading from a 90g to 120g, drilled, and a sump. It will be a corner pentagon and am pretty excited for it. But a sump scares me as I don't know a lot about them. Ive been doing a lot of internet searches and am looking for some opinions, clarification. I will be going with the herbie style overflow, I hear it is very simple to setup, and virtually silent...two very important things for my tank. Anyways, the guy that is building it and the sump has recommended a single overflow, however with two return pumps in the sump, each feeding its own outlet into the display. His reasoning is that if one pump breaks or stops or whatever, the other one will continue, also, if I remove one for maintenance, then I still have one working for me (keep in mind he is only building the tank and sump, and not any of the equipment). SO what are your thoughts on that??

I am looking for a simple sump. I don't want to be changing socks every three days and such, and from what I have read, socks aren't absolutely necessary. So I'm thinking the pipes come in (and from what I have seen, they must be below water level in the sump to keep the syphon and to keep things quiet...correct?). I think ill put some live rock in the first chamber. Then Into the next which will be a refugium, then into the return chamber. Will this work? Where do you recommend that I put carbon? Also, what size heater(s) should be in this system?

I think that is all for now...but I will have a ton more soon I'm sure.
 

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lmforbis

lmforbis

Well-Known Member
Two pumps would work as long as their combined output doesn't exceed the maximum volume your overflow can handle. I don't think it is necessary, and not something I would do. Your sump should have enough empty volume to accommodate the water that drains back into it, if the pump is off. If not, you will have a flood if your power goes out. This is something you will want to test once you get it up and going.

Once you have a sump you will wonder why you never did it before.
 
sberto

sberto

Member
That's what I hear. I'm looking forward to getting it up and going.

So if I'm going with two, the max combined can't be over what my overflow will handle. I got that. How can you regulate what a pump puts out though...or is that why it's just better to go with one?

Any thoughts to the rest?
 
S

Shilpan

Member
Hey!
-heater is 1watt per litre (I use two 300W heaters for my 400L tank)
-yup love rock then refugium is good
-I suggest before these two having your skimmer
-I just use skimmer plus refugium to deal with waste no filter socks. But I do get detritus building up near the return pump which I siphon once a month
-I think carbon can go anywhere maybe near end so the other zones remove other crap first
-I have no problem with only one pump
 
lmforbis

lmforbis

Well-Known Member
I have a gate valve on the return line to control the flow. When I think about it I think you'd be better off with one pump. You can keep a spare but one larger pump is probably better with only one overflow.
Yes return lines below water level. I have filter socks but only use them when I stir things up. Otherwise I don't bother.
I have my skimmer in the first chamber. In the second I have chaeto and live rock rubble. Third chamber is return pump.
For heater I have a 100 W in my sump and a 200 W in the main tank. So 300 W total for the 125 gallon tank (150 gallon total). I live in Minnesota where it is very cold, house temp is at 68 daytime and 60 at night. The 300 W are plenty to maintain 78 degrees. Personally I don't like heaters with wattage higher than 200 because if they get stuck on it can quickly overheat your tank. I like to have more than one because if one fails in the off position I have I little more time before the temp drops too low. I also have my heaters hooked up to a reefkeeper lite controller. The controller turns the heater on and off and has an audible alarm that tells me if it goes too high or too low. Same idea as an apex just less complicated and can't do all the things an apex does. I don't use it for anything but controlling the heaters and fuge lights so there was no point in getting something more complicated.
I use a BRS dual carbon/GFO reactor that I have in the cabinet next to the sump.
 
sberto

sberto

Member
Thanks for you information Imforbis and Shilpan. Will definitely put the skimmer first, and then the refugium with the heaters and such. Good point on having two heaters, I think I like that "fail safe" type system...I had a heater go with my fresh water tank...except it over heat the tank...not good. Anyhow, good to know the 1watt / litre of water volume, and will most likely keep everything in the sump because i don't want anything but power heads in the display...which will be a whole other conversation.

I think with both of your statements, and the fact that I NEED things to be easy...1 return pump is the way to go. Again, I just don't know how big...and how to figure out how big??

I like the idea of only using filter socks when you stir things up...that makes sense. I can have him put a spot for the socks, or filter floss and only use it when things get messy during a water change. When else do things get stirred up? Do you use sand also in your refugium or only live rubble?

I am up in Edmonton, Canada...so about 750 miles north west of you...currently -16F this morning so I hear ya about the cold....brrrrrr!

I won't be using a reactor...so Im still trying to figure out where to put carbon, and in what form. Any pictures of your sumps??

Thanks again for your input, I really appreciate it!
 
lmforbis

lmforbis

Well-Known Member
I can post a sump pic when I get home. Mine's not pretty but it works. When picking out a pump you need to look at the flow rate at the height of your return (head height) as the pump needs to pump against gravity. My return lines are about 5' above the pump and my overflows are about 700 gal per hour so I needed a pump that was at or less than 1400 GPH at a head height of 5'. I personally don't want a pump that can pump more than the overflows can handle. Even if You reduce flow on a stronger pump you never know when something will go wrong or, more likely, somebody messes with the adjustment. My pump flows at about 1000 GPH when it is on full blast. This gives me a bit of wiggle room just in case I have an issue with one of the returns like a snail climbs into the pipe obstructing the flow. It has only happened once in the 2 years this tank has been running but observation and less than max flow allowed me to notice the water level was higher than usual before the tank overflowed. Turns out a snail was stuck in one of the ball valves restricting the flow out of the overflow on that side. My return valves are always wide open, I only have them so I can separate the water in the sump from the tank if necessary for maintenance or cleaning.
 
sberto

sberto

Member
Ok, so how did you figure out that your overflows are 700GPH? That is also a good idea to have the piping done for maintenance, no more sucking on a hose to get water out during a water change....I hate that.

Thanks for all the info though...keep it coming!!
 
sberto

sberto

Member
ahh, ok. The guy that is building it for me then should be able to tell me. Hopefully hah.

Im just looking at some of the old stuff I have around the house, I think I can turn an old 46g bow front into a sump...or is that not such a good idea?

Also, any advice on lighting? right now I'm using Current Marine LED Pro, love them (so does my coral), but the fixture won't fit on the new one the way it has to. Im thinking of some kind of pendulum light like the kessils or the AI. So much to think of...again...not to mention how to get everything from tank A to tank B successfully.
 
lmforbis

lmforbis

Well-Known Member
The bow front may be tough. I use a 29 gallon I added plexiglass baffles. It is a bit deep but my stand is taller than most. I'd recommend a 40 gallon if it will fit under your tank. A 20 gallon long would work too. Most skimmers need to be in fairly shallow water, 6-9 inches depending on the skimmer so a deep sump isn't necessarily a good thing. If it were me I'd wait till I had the tank to build the sump. You need to be able to make the plumbing fit.
 
sberto

sberto

Member
Ahh, makes sense. The guy that is building the tank said he could build a sump to match, so maybe I will just keep it that way. Thanks!

Any thoughts on lighting? I was looking at the Aquaillusions HD LED....they look pretty good.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
What size are the plumbing lines going to be for the drains?

I have a 120g tank with sump. I'm running dual herbie's on a single pump.

Off the top of my head you'd probably be looking for around a 1200 gph pump.
 
sberto

sberto

Member
I'm not sure yet what size lines. It will be a single overflow. I'm guessing th main drain will be 1" and the emergency wil be 1.5".
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
1.5" open channel drain needs to be 1200gph or less. So stick with a pump that puts out no more than that after head loss is calculated.

That being said you probably don't want anywhere near that much flow through the sump unless you have a large one. Otherwise the flow will be pretty fast, it will be noisier and more salt creep from water splashing as it travels over the baffles.
 
sberto

sberto

Member
Yea that makes sense. And I hate the noise of moving water lol so what i am taking from this is, wait until the tank and sump are built and then buy the right return pump to fit it?
 
S

Shilpan

Member
Hey just your question about the refugium, depends on your aim.
I'm trying to control nutrients and produce Lots of pods for my fish which need them.

So I have 2 types of macroalgae, 2 large pieces of live rock. 1/3 live rock rubble on the base, 1/3 empty for detritus to collect and siphon and a 1/3 sandy area. Just creating as many different environments as possible to maximize different types of life. Just added the sand recently but already noticed some bugs popping up there which means hopefully my sand sifter will get More food too.

And yes about the noisy water! I bought an all in one aquarium. I had to modify the drain pipe by adding extra tubing because of that annoying splashing since the pipe ended above the sump instead of below the water line.
 
sberto

sberto

Member
I'm thinking the same idea for my refugium as well. A nutrient export source as well as a place to host pods for my fish. So a decent size one anyways. I like how you separated it to sections. Pictures??
 
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