lol, oops

[stdreb27]

#1 Toyota Camry
While there's no simple way to determine what "American" means these days, each year Cars.com releases its American-Made Index, which ranks vehicles on where they are built, where their parts come from and how many are sold in the United States. In other words: which cars create the most business locally based on these factors. Where do the profits go? That's another story.
For the third year in a row the Kentucky and Indiana-built Toyota Camry tops the list with a combination of an 80 percent domestic parts content and more sales than any other car.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/leisure/2011/06/28/most-american-car-is-japanese/#ixzz1QbwYhC17
http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/leisure/2011/06/28/most-american-car-is-japanese/#slide=1

 

[aquaknight]

A.) They're definitely wrong, see below,
B,) Supplemental reading on this topic I did already;
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/forum/thread/384739/fantastic-article-graph-really-on-domestic-auto-production
I do have absolutely no clue on their "rating system" however... The Camry is definitely not the highest percentage car in the US (see my thread). And what I think they did was factor the percentage with annual sales. However that would still be wrong. Even if the Ford's F-Series (or Chevy/GMC Silverado/Sierra) is only 60%/61% domestic, their much higher sales figures over the Camry still mean they generate more "local business." Whatever that means.
2010 sales figures;
Camry 327,000 (80% domestic)
Ford F-series 512,000 (60% domestic)
You do the math....

 

[mantisman51]

This was another typical auto journalist CYA for his favorite car company. For baby boomers, Toyota represents everything their fathers were against(and too many let that counter culture mentality rule their lives-even so-called conservatives) and a religious fervor has taken the place objectivity. The auto journalists are to Toyota what NY Times, NBC, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, etc are to democratics . There is the automatic assumption of superiority and correctness to the exclusion of everything else.

 

[stdreb27]

lol, what about the mythical run away toyota scare of last year...

 

[mantisman51]

It wasn't mythical. The government said it was poorly designed floor mats instead of the electronic accelerator. You've just made my point. They can do no wrong. I wish Americans had as much faith in God as Toyota fanatics have in Toyota-and I'm serious.

 

[mantisman51]

BTW, it doesn't mean I think Toyota fanatics are bad people, just that they are willing to overlook MASSIVE engineering problems because their Corolla has a soft vinyl dash; 07-09 Tundra leaf spring shackle failures and frame corrosion failures; 9 million Camry, Corolla and Sienna engine failure recall; and my favorite: 88-91 Camry PW/PDL relay fires that killed people because the doors couldn't be opened unless you could unlock them with the burning PDL relay. I made a lot of money on that recall. We had to add a rod to the lock assembly to allow the locks to be unlocked when the relay caught on fire. Again, Toyota knew about it in 1990, but never did anything until the Feds forced them to.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/386417/lol-oops#post_3394294
It wasn't mythical. The government said it was poorly designed floor mats instead of the electronic accelerator. You've just made my point. They can do no wrong. I wish Americans had as much faith in God as Toyota fanatics have in Toyota-and I'm serious.
imo if you can't recreate the problem, (which they couldn't) then it is mythical to me...

 

[mantisman51]

You need to reread the story. They couldn't recreate the faulty electronic accelerator problem.
http://autos.aol.com/article/toyota-documents-subpoenaed/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/10/21/us-toyota-idUSTRE69K0UW20101021
I know none of this will change any true believers mind. It is like someone telling me God does not exist. I hear the words, but it means nothing because I know what I know and what I want to know. No car company in history has had the sheer number of engineering problems that Toyota has. But that doesn't matter to a true believer because the dash and doors are soft. BTW, I own a Camry. I just know that it ain't the best car ever made. I accept what it is: a decent car that is no better and no worse than any other car. But it may have issues I need to watch out for. I choose not to drink the koolaid.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/386417/lol-oops#post_3394307
You need to reread the story. They couldn't recreate the faulty electronic accelerator problem.
http://autos.aol.com/article/toyota-documents-subpoenaed/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/10/21/us-toyota-idUSTRE69K0UW20101021
I know none of this will change any true believers mind. It is like someone telling me God does not exist. I hear the words, but it means nothing because I know what I know and what I want to know. No car company in history has had the sheer number of engineering problems that Toyota has. But that doesn't matter to a true believer because the dash and doors are soft. BTW, I own a Camry. I just know that it ain't the best car ever made. I accept what it is: a decent car that is no better and no worse than any other car. But it may have issues I need to watch out for. I choose not to drink the koolaid.
exactly, IMO having a pedal "stick" because your floor mad did it. Isn't a design problem...

 

[dragonzim]

I bought a new Prius 3 two weeks ago and I have noticed that sometimes when I get out of the car, depending on how I turn my right foot as exiting, that the floor mat will pull up from under the pedals and come to rest on top of them. It only happens sometimes, and its not something that a driver would not notice. All it takes is a little push from my foot and the mat goes back under the pedals as it should be. Not sure if I would consider this a design flaw or not but a little anchor for the mat behind the pedals would definitely keep it from happening.

 

[mantisman51]

And the other 14 million recalled vehicles? So, as I said, true believers will always believe.

 

[mantisman51]

It doesn't even mean that someone is less intelligent. It means that someone has bought into the marketing and no evidence is sufficient to dissuade them from buying in. It's not unlike me and the KC Chiefs. They're not that good, but I love them and stay loyal anyways.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///forum/thread/386417/lol-oops#post_3394339
I bought a new Prius 3 two weeks ago and I have noticed that sometimes when I get out of the car, depending on how I turn my right foot as exiting, that the floor mat will pull up from under the pedals and come to rest on top of them. It only happens sometimes, and its not something that a driver would not notice. All it takes is a little push from my foot and the mat goes back under the pedals as it should be. Not sure if I would consider this a design flaw or not but a little anchor for the mat behind the pedals would definitely keep it from happening.
That has happened with every vehicle I've owned...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/386417/lol-oops#post_3394343
It doesn't even mean that someone is less intelligent. It means that someone has bought into the marketing and no evidence is sufficient to dissuade them from buying in. It's not unlike me and the KC Chiefs. They're not that good, but I love them and stay loyal anyways.
I test drove Toyota's, really didn't like em. But to tell me, that somehow, a poorly designed floor mat, on a handful of car's justified the freak out that happened. Well, that would be drinking the coolaid. They couldn't reproduce the electrical "problem."
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/07/14/report-many-of-toyota%E2%80%99s-acceleration-problems-due-to-driver-error/
"However, a traffic fatality from last August, in which the gas pedal got stuck in the floor mat, is the only one so far that the NHTSA has tied to a mechanical problem."
Hell, I could tell one story about an accelerator getting stuck on a GM product, of someone who'd NEVER been in a wreck in literally 40 years. I didn't' see the guberment go after GM...

 

[mantisman51]

But you are focusing on 1 issue. I am referring to the dozens of other recalls. I know a lot of conservatives saw the sticking pedal issue as an Obama administration issue to smear Toyota. That could be. But the NHTSA has stated there are 34 deaths attributed to sticking pedals. And the investigation started in 2007, before Obama took office. Toyota has a long track record of bad engineering, but true believers ignore it. The 14 million recalled vehicles last year were not all recalled over the throttle issue. Things like faulty brakes, engine failure, fuel leaks, premature corrosion and transmission failure, to name a few. All companies have recalls, including my beloved Chrysler. The difference is Toyota's severity of the problems and massive numbers of vehicles. In the late 90's I never heard one Chrysler owner defend the Ultradrive transmission failures that led to all minivans having their transmissions recalled for 97 and 98 models. The difference is that Toyota true believers deny there is a problem in the first place.

 

[aquaknight]

The problem is that biased auto rags (99% of the time, anit-domestic) is nothing new within the last 20 or so years, and people are genuinely tired of it. Not all of us grew up hating our fathers, and don't view a brand negatively because of him.... We're tired of seeing Corvettes lose to a Porsche in a performance comparison, because the Corvette has hard seats, even though it trumps the Porsche in performance.. And so on.. As I provided the info for, what they claim isn't true. They also go on to claim even more nonsense, like the Toyota Tundra is more American then the F-150.
The reality is that, yes in years past the offerings may not have equal in quality, and that's why a lot of people did switch to a foreign brand. However, today, there really isn't a standout leader, and almost all offerings from all brands are genuinely good cars. I think because of this, you're starting to see the intensity levels build.

 

[theclemsonkid]

I always base my car buying opinions on the ones I see broken down on the side of the road. 85% of the time, I'll see a Dodge, Chrysler, Ford, or Chevy sitting there waiting for a tow. You very rarely see a Camry or Accord on the roadside dead. This of course can be attributed to the way different people care for their cars, but regardless, that's enough for me to stay away.

 

[mantisman51]

I rarely see newer vehicles of any kind on the side of the road. Now I do see a lot of 10-15 y/o vehicles on the side of the road. My 94 Plymouth Acclaim has 192k miles with the original engine and transmission-the a/c quit 2 years ago, but I rarely used it anyway. My 98 Ram 1500 now has 151k miles on the original engine/transmission-a/c quit on that as well about 130k miles. I tow a lot of stuff with the Ram and it has never let me down. I read and others say they've had problems with domestics but I haven't had much problem with any of my vehicles, and I've owned new Dodge, Nissan, Toyota and Ford and several other used cars. I don't think Toyota is necessarily a bad vehicle, I just think too many boomers are willing to leave their brain at the dealership and worship a damn car. That's what bothers me.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/386417/lol-oops#post_3394349
But you are focusing on 1 issue. I am referring to the dozens of other recalls. I know a lot of conservatives saw the sticking pedal issue as an Obama administration issue to smear Toyota. That could be. But the NHTSA has stated there are 34 deaths attributed to sticking pedals. And the investigation started in 2007, before Obama took office. Toyota has a long track record of bad engineering, but true believers ignore it. The 14 million recalled vehicles last year were not all recalled over the throttle issue. Things like faulty brakes, engine failure, fuel leaks, premature corrosion and transmission failure, to name a few. All companies have recalls, including my beloved Chrysler. The difference is Toyota's severity of the problems and massive numbers of vehicles. In the late 90's I never heard one Chrysler owner defend the Ultradrive transmission failures that led to all minivans having their transmissions recalled for 97 and 98 models. The difference is that Toyota true believers deny there is a problem in the first place.
And of those 34 deaths, one was mechanical? (at least according the that article)
See, I don't personally care one way or another, IMO there is no way you're going to manufacture how many millions of vehicles without having issues with a % of them. Then if you've EVER been involved with the engineering of a large product, I'm continually amazed anything gets built... You're going to have issues... Whether it be the ford exploder and their 100k mile tranny, a bad parking break, etc. No one can build a perfect car, and I doubt even a etherial being could build an idiot proof one.
That being said, of the car's I've owned and worked with, domestic car's have been a giant disaster! vs the honda....
Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaKnight http:///forum/thread/386417/lol-oops#post_3394357
The problem is that biased auto rags (99% of the time, anit-domestic) is nothing new within the last 20 or so years, and people are genuinely tired of it. Not all of us grew up hating our fathers, and don't view a brand negatively because of him.... We're tired of seeing Corvettes lose to a Porsche in a performance comparison, because the Corvette has hard seats, even though it trumps the Porsche in performance.. And so on.. As I provided the info for, what they claim isn't true. They also go on to claim even more nonsense, like the Toyota Tundra is more American then the F-150.
The reality is that, yes in years past the offerings may not have equal in quality, and that's why a lot of people did switch to a foreign brand. However, today, there really isn't a standout leader, and almost all offerings from all brands are genuinely good cars. I think because of this, you're starting to see the intensity levels build.
I don't deal with new cars lol

 

[mantisman51]

I worked for Honda in Canal Winchester, Ohio. The I think the foreign car companies producing cars in the U.S. is a good idea. The engineers from Japan would walk the plant inspecting the work. Funny but true: I was the final inspector for the Accord door panels. Instead of rejecting the door panels with small wrinkles, I would steam them smooth and pass them on. An engineer saw me doing this and ripped me a new one in Japanese. Another engineer who spoke English came running over to translate. He said that that might work in America but that was not the Honda way. He kept going on and I interrupted and said "Then I'll be rejecting every panel, because everyone has that blemish." They shut the plant down so they could fix the molding machine. I was miffed, but thought it was cool they cared about the product that much. We're talking about a tiny wrinkle about 1/2" by maybe 1/16" and I could steam it out, but they wanted a perfect product.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/386417/lol-oops#post_3394375
I worked for Honda in Canal Winchester, Ohio. The I think the foreign car companies producing cars in the U.S. is a good idea. The engineers from Japan would walk the plant inspecting the work. Funny but true: I was the final inspector for the Accord door panels. Instead of rejecting the door panels with small wrinkles, I would steam them smooth and pass them on. An engineer saw me doing this and ripped me a new one in Japanese. Another engineer who spoke English came running over to translate. He said that that might work in America but that was not the Honda way. He kept going on and I interrupted and said "Then I'll be rejecting every panel, because everyone has that blemish." They shut the plant down so they could fix the molding machine. I was miffed, but thought it was cool they cared about the product that much. We're talking about a tiny wrinkle about 1/2" by maybe 1/16" and I could steam it out, but they wanted a perfect product.
All joking, and pot stirring aside. I'm VERY VERY happy with my Honda. I got an SI, and it is the perfect Balance between something I can romp around it, and drive, vs, something I can commute to work. I've never got sticker gas mile, I've always been over. The only repairs I've done, are an alignment, a battery and a battery terminal. (oh and the visor broke) Everything is wearing very well. I've got 110k on it now.
My ford owned mazda car(hey I didn't buy it, I warned them not too)? 2 tranny's, an AC system, a PVC valve that require you remove the exhaust manifold, the seat is ripping, the cloth on the ceiling is falling down. That one has about 100k on it. It has been a disaster...