Low PH Levels

[madandgloa]

Hello, my PH level was sitting at about 7.8, I put some buffer in and it is now at 8.2. I have never had this problem before in previous aquariums. I have a 55 gallon aquarium with both live rock and live sand. I have a few fish in it and the whole setup is about 2 weeks old. Do you think the PH will come back up after more of a cycle or will I need to keep adding the buffer? In my previous tank I never actually checked the PH but the fish and corals all did well with no apparant problems. My nitrates were at 20ppm, my nitrites were at .50 ppm, ammonia 0, calcium 500. I added some stress zyme to help bring the nitrates and nitrites down. I am confident they will drop as the aquarium cycles. My main concer is the PH levels, I provided the other information to help anyone answer my question.
Thanks alot
Jim

 

[keith burn]

are you useing carbon?

 

[madandgloa]

I have a penguin 350 with dual bio-wheel. I added an additional filter with carbon and a bag of carbon to the filter.

 

[keith burn]

Originally Posted by madandgloa
I have a penguin 350 with dual bio-wheel. I added an additional filter with carbon and a bag of carbon to the filter.
carbon will pull buffer out of water.
imo pull carbon intell ph is ok.
and ues only after tank is up and running.
me myself i do not run it all the time only when needed...

 

[madandgloa]

Do you think the PH will rise to normal levels once the tank fully cycles? Will I need to keep putting buffer in? Wont the carbon help cycle the tank by removing organic wastes?

 

[lion_crazz]

Originally Posted by madandgloa
Hello, my PH level was sitting at about 7.8, I put some buffer in and it is now at 8.2. I have never had this problem before in previous aquariums. I have a 55 gallon aquarium with both live rock and live sand. I have a few fish in it and the whole setup is about 2 weeks old. Do you think the PH will come back up after more of a cycle or will I need to keep adding the buffer? In my previous tank I never actually checked the PH but the fish and corals all did well with no apparant problems. My nitrates were at 20ppm, my nitrites were at .50 ppm, ammonia 0, calcium 500. I added some stress zyme to help bring the nitrates and nitrites down. I am confident they will drop as the aquarium cycles. My main concer is the PH levels, I provided the other information to help anyone answer my question.
Thanks alot
Jim
What kind of buffer are you adding? What is the name of it? Without knowing your alkalinity, I would stop adding the buffer. You may not be using the appropriate buffer. Also, I trust that your nitrite level is making your pH drop, and your calcium is making your alkalinity stay low. If you bring down the calcium, check and possibly buffer your alk, and finish the cycle to get rid of the nitrites, your pH will be fine.
The StressZyme you are putting in the tank will do nothing for nitrates. A cycle will not get rid of nitrates either. Only water changes get rid of nitrates. I would not recommend doing your first water change until your cycle is over.
Also, carbon really does not have anything to do with a pH issue. Your ammonia/nitrite is bringing your pH down, your calcium is probably effecting your alkalinity, and you may not have enough oxygen in your tank.
You can test to see if it is oxygen that's causing your low pH by putting tank water in a bowl, aerating it for 2 hours (with an air stone or powerhead) and testing the pH in that bowl. If it is higher than 7.8, than your tank is not getting enough oxygen either.
Also, I STRONGLY recommend you do not put any fish into a cycling tank. The ammonia and nitrites from a cycle can burn the fishes' gills. In my opinion, this is unneccessary and is cruel to the fish.

 

[madandgloa]

The buffer is proper PH 8.2 by aquarium pharmaceuticals. I had an airstone in the tank for a while and it did not seem to matter too with the PH. My ammonia levels are at zero, and the nitrites should come down with biological additives provided by the stress zyme. The only reason I put fish in was because I used alot of biological material during the setup. The fish are good as most of the paramaters are good. I bought a test kit and found the low PH levels, that was the only reason I even knew there was a problem. I guess I will put the airstone back in and see if it helps. Right now the PH is at the proper levels because of the buffer. I only put enough in to treat 40 gallons and I have a 55 gallon tank. I did not buy enough to add in the future because I figured this problem might remedy itself once the water cycled.

 

[lion_crazz]

I actually would recommend against an airstone in your tank.
A powerhead would be much better.
The negatives of an air stone/bubbler are:
-can get lodged in a fishes gills
-no GPH turns
-cause bubble algae
-cause stress to the fish (ICH or popeye)
-cause salt creep which in turn causes irregular salinity/SG
-when bubbles pop the water can get on your lights causing the life off your lights to decline rapidly,
Some periodic air bubbles are not harmful, but constant ones are.

 

[lion_crazz]

Originally Posted by madandgloa
The buffer is proper PH 8.2 by aquarium pharmaceuticals.
I have found that this buffer does not work well at all.
I figured this problem might remedy itself once the water cycled.
Well, it may stop dropping temporarily because there will be no nitrites, but if anything causes it to drop again (i.e. ammonia/nitrite spike, nitrate spike, etc.), it will have a hard time coming back up if you do not check and fix your alkalinity/calcium problem. This issue has nothing to do with your cycling aquarium.

 

[madandgloa]

I have a power head, should I set it up to draw air in? Or is just having it enough to provide enough oxygen? Maybe I should add a protein skimmer, I was going to wait a bit.

 

[lion_crazz]

A protein skimmer would add a TON of oxygen.
I would just use the powerhead to create water flow. You do not need the venturi on it for air flow. As long as it is moving water around, you are going to increase your oxygen.
I would recommend using both.

 

[madandgloa]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
I have found that this buffer does not work well at all.
Well, it may stop dropping temporarily because there will be no nitrites, but if anything causes it to drop again (i.e. ammonia/nitrite spike, nitrate spike, etc.), it will have a hard time coming back up if you do not check and fix your alkalinity/calcium problem. This issue has nothing to do with your cycling aquarium.
Is my calcium too high?? And what do I need to do to fix the alkalinity problem? I thought that was tied to PH. Please speak to me as a layman, this may limit my confusion. Thank you for the help and quick responses
Jim

 

[madandgloa]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
A protein skimmer would add a TON of oxygen.
I would just use the powerhead to create water flow. You do not need the venturi on it for air flow. As long as it is moving water around, you are going to increase your oxygen.
I would recommend using both.

I will purchase a protein skimmer next week.

 

[lion_crazz]

Okay, I will try to break the issue down for you. Right now, I suspect you are having pH issues for 2 reasons.
1) Your nitrites are high. When I say high, anything above 0 is considered high. When your ammonia or nitrites are higher than normal, your pH will drop because inorganic material is decomposing, forcing your pH down.
2) Your calcium is high. When your calcium is high, your alkalinity is usually low. pH, alk, and calcium are all related. pH relies on alkalinity, and alkalinity is tied in with calcium. A calcium level of 500 is a tad high. 400-450 ppm is ideal. Thus, I am guessing your alkalinity is a little low.
When pH drops, the pH relies on the carbonate hardness to buffer the pH back up. If your carbonate hardness (alkalinity) is low, your water will not be able to buffer the pH back up on its own. This is what I suspect is happening in your tank.
Because your nitrites are high, your pH is dropping. Because your calcium is high, your alkalinity is probably low. Because of this, when your pH drops, the water is not able to keep it up because your carbonate hardness (alkalinity) is low.
Thus, when you add the pH buffer to your tank, the pH comes back up. But anytime it is forced down (such as when the nitrites rise), it cannot go back up because your alkalinity is still low. If you do not fix your alkalinity, you will always be adding pH buffer.
The first thing I would do is get a alkalinity or kH (carbonate hardness) test kit so that you know where the level is. If you find that it is low, you need to buffer the alk, as opposed to the pH. A great alk buffer is Kent's Super dkH buffer.
Also, know that carbonate hardness (kH) is another way of measuring alkalinity.
I am not sure if that made any sense to you, but if there are any parts that confuse you, please ask me and I will clarify some more.

 

[lion_crazz]

When you go shopping for a skimmer, Coralife, AquaC Remora, and Excalibur are your best bets. They are reliable and work very well.
I would strongly recommend you stay away from Prizm, CPR, Berlin, Jebo, Won Bros., and SeaClone. They are all usually junk and not worth the money you spend on them.

 

[madandgloa]

I will probally get the coralife skimmer, I want something that hangs on the back and not in the tank.
Your post made perfect sense, thank you for the info I will be working on getting the nitrites down (this is why I figured the tank had to cycle). Is there anyway to get the calcium down?

 

[lion_crazz]

Well, if you test the alkalinity and find that that is low, your will bring down the calcium by bringing up the alkalinity.
I assume you are not adding any kind of calcum buffer, right?
Coralife skimmers are fantastic and I am sure you will be very happy with that choice.

 

[madandgloa]

The only buffer I have put in is the PH buffer. I will test the alkalinity and try to bring it up if need be.

 

[lion_crazz]

Yep, I suspect that that is the issue.
Also though, like I said, you can test to see if it is oxygen that's causing your low pH by putting tank water in a bowl, aerating it for 2 hours (with an air stone or powerhead) and testing the pH in that bowl. If it is higher than 7.8, than your tank is not getting enough oxygen either.

 

[mlandrigan]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
Well, if you test the alkalinity and find that that is low, your will bring down the calcium by bringing up the alkalinity.

Lion: Does this mean that if alk is high (mine is 18 kH) then there is a very good chance that my calcium is low? I have not tested it as I have a FOWLR.