Loyalty or ethics which is superior?

[darthtang aw]

I have noticed something the last almost twenty years. Democrats/liberals will remain loyal to their politicians, even when they lie to them and go against their core beliefs and desires. On the other hand Republicans and conservatives will walk away from and voice a displeasure with their guy in office when he is not supportting their beliefs and so on.
Dont believe me?
I give you Past President Bush and Current President Obama. When Bush was in office, what was his approval rating during his second term? To get that low his base had to walk away from him as well. Now look at President Obama who has not accomplished Much of what his base disliked (Guantanimo Bay, scandal after scandal, Expanding HSA spying on citizens). basically the things the opponents of the Last President constantly voiced displeasure with are still in place and in many cases were expanded upon. Yet his approval rating amongst his core supporters has not faltered.

 

[aggiealum]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397190/loyalty-or-ethics-which-is-superior#post_3539360
I have noticed something the last almost twenty years. Democrats/liberals will remain loyal to their politicians, even when they lie to them and go against their core beliefs and desires. On the other hand Republicans and conservatives will walk away from and voice a displeasure with their guy in office when he is not supportting their beliefs and so on.
Dont believe me?
I give you Past President Bush and Current President Obama. When Bush was in office, what was his approval rating during his second term? To get that low his base had to walk away from him as well. Now look at President Obama who has not accomplished Much of what his base disliked (Guantanimo Bay, scandal after scandal, Expanding HSA spying on citizens). basically the things the opponents of the Last President constantly voiced displeasure with are still in place and in many cases were expanded upon. Yet his approval rating amongst his core supporters has not faltered.
You're joking right? I'm not loyal to ANY politician. I don't care which side of the fence they're on. EVERYONE walked away from Bush in his second term not because of their beliefs or core values, but because he literally destroyed our economy and put us into the worst Recession since the Great Depression of the 20's. We still haven't recovered from some of his gaffes. You say Obama hasn't accomplished anything because you totally disagree with any and every policy he's made. Bringing up Guantanimo Bay is as pointless as constantly screaming "Benghazi!" every chance you get. I don't agree with many of the things the NSA has recently done, but to some degree their intrusions have protected this country from another potential 9/11. The IRS scandal? Please. That federal institution has been corrupt since its inception. With more availability to open records, and how the average citizen has more and more access to information due to the vast expansion of the Internet, it's not surprising they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. This isn't the age of Watergate where reporters had to rely on stealth individuals like Deep Throat to obtain their information. A click of a button and you'd be amazed what you can find. Then you have semi-traitors like Snowden who violate significant security policies by walking off with classified information, and stealing another persons account to get into other systems that had no authority to do so, to uncover information that has a major implication on how we protect this country from cyber-terrorism and who knows what. Yea, Republican backers just "walk away" from their politicians. That's why you have some of those politicians in the same Washington office for more than 40 years.

 

[darthtang aw]

You're joking right?  I'm not loyal to ANY politician.  I don't care which side of the fence they're on.  EVERYONE walked away from Bush in his second term not because of their beliefs or core values, but because he literally destroyed our economy and put us into the worst Recession since the Great Depression of the 20's.  We still haven't recovered from some of his gaffes.  You say Obama hasn't accomplished anything because you totally disagree with any and every policy he's made.  Bringing up Guantanimo Bay is as pointless as constantly screaming "Benghazi!" every chance you get.  I don't agree with many of the things the NSA has recently done, but to some degree their intrusions have protected this country from another potential 9/11.  The IRS scandal?  Please.  That federal institution has been corrupt since its inception.  With more availability to open records, and how the average citizen has more and more access to information due to the vast expansion of the Internet, it's not surprising they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.  This isn't the age of Watergate where reporters had to rely on stealth individuals like Deep Throat to obtain their information.  A click of a button and you'd be amazed what you can find.  Then you have semi-traitors like Snowden who violate significant security policies by walking off with classified information, and stealing another persons account to get into other systems that had no authority to do so, to uncover information that has a major implication on how we protect this country from cyber-terrorism and who knows what.  Yea, Republican backers just "walk away" from their politicians.  That's why you have some of those politicians in the same Washington office for more than 40 years.
president Obama thanks you for your support. It is interesting that i didnt list a specific scandal yet you rationalized or dismissed most of them in a single post.

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397190/loyalty-or-ethics-which-is-superior#post_3539360
I have noticed something the last almost twenty years. Democrats/liberals will remain loyal to their politicians, even when they lie to them and go against their core beliefs and desires. On the other hand Republicans and conservatives will walk away from and voice a displeasure with their guy in office when he is not supportting their beliefs and so on.
Dont believe me?
I give you Past President Bush and Current President Obama. When Bush was in office, what was his approval rating during his second term? To get that low his base had to walk away from him as well. Now look at President Obama who has not accomplished Much of what his base disliked (Guantanimo Bay, scandal after scandal, Expanding HSA spying on citizens). basically the things the opponents of the Last President constantly voiced displeasure with are still in place and in many cases were expanded upon. Yet his approval rating amongst his core supporters has not faltered.

I think the biggest difference between the support garnered from liberals/democrats vs what you call the "walk away from Bush Republicans" is the direction the parties are headed. The libs have been fairly consistent the past two decades in policy, and those who vote for them haven't really changed much on party lines, especially in what they vote for.

Now look at the conservatives, especially since W Bush. He was the point that half the party wanted jump ship and call themselves "tea party" or "traditional conservatives" or whatever else you want to call the Paul Ryan, Sarah Palin crowd. So for them, they voiced displeasure because they were trying to gain political ground with what they considered the new direction of the party. I don't think it necessarily played out that way, but that's what I think they were doing.

The libs don't really have anything else to hang on to. Libertarians are an option I suppose, but I think they lean much more conservative than liberal...

 

[beth]

The Republicans and conservatives in general are pretty divided---liberals are not. As Clem said.

 

[2quills]

Everybody walks away from presidents. We see this going on right now with democrats and their current admin. There once was a time when a part of the democratic party split from their southern slave owning brethren that lead the party at the time to follow republican leadership under Lincoln and in the union. That union that lead this nation out of slavery. Until economic slavery took over. We can blame Obama for obama care, we can blame Bush for the wars or even Clinton for clearing the way for the banks to run wild with other people's money. Everybody walks away from politicians when actions don't live up to expectations. They are the face for those ideas and therefore they take the heat. It's part of the job. People take it to personal. But it's how we learn what works and what doesn't as well as sends a message to the next runner up.
There are more loyal people than ethical people in this world IMO. Just because one is popular doesn't make it superior.

 

[phixer]

Or we can blame both parties and chit can them all since they both suck. We dont move forward by continually trading evils. It's time we wipe the slate clean and try something green.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397190/loyalty-or-ethics-which-is-superior#post_3539360
I have noticed something the last almost twenty years. Democrats/liberals will remain loyal to their politicians, even when they lie to them and go against their core beliefs and desires. On the other hand Republicans and conservatives will walk away from and voice a displeasure with their guy in office when he is not supportting their beliefs and so on.
Dont believe me?
I give you Past President Bush and Current President Obama. When Bush was in office, what was his approval rating during his second term? To get that low his base had to walk away from him as well. Now look at President Obama who has not accomplished Much of what his base disliked (Guantanimo Bay, scandal after scandal, Expanding HSA spying on citizens). basically the things the opponents of the Last President constantly voiced displeasure with are still in place and in many cases were expanded upon. Yet his approval rating amongst his core supporters has not faltered.
Have you seen the comparisons to the Bush approval rating and 0bama approval ratings at this point in their presidencies? I think Bush had a 1 point higher approval than 0bama. 0bama's core is eroding and now he's in a hard spot because attitudes have shifted away from his base. Not so sure that isn't going to play into their favor though. If Republicans re take the Senate I think it makes it much more likely we have another Dem elected in 2016. Hopefully this one who have a clue about what they are doing.

 

[darthtang aw]

Actually he is about the same as Bush this far in the presidency. Both hovered around 40%. and steadily began dropping. Meaning both at this point still have their base. I believe, Obama will keep his base through the end of his term, unlike Bush.

 

[darthtang aw]

The Republicans and conservatives in general are pretty divided---liberals are not.  As Clem said.
Now sure. But the tea party began as a grass roots movement after the stimulus packages and just after Obamas election. So with out the tea party movement the conservative base was still walking away from Bush. Even before the economic crash at the end of 08.

 

[reefraff]

The Tea Party has been spoiled by money. Unfortunately the media has been successful in painting it as a single group due to the two big well funded ones that are more trading on the name than upholding the ideals the real Tea Party folks were pushing in 2010.