Microbubbles in CL closed loop

[stimpy4242]

I have microbubbles in my CL system, the intake and the output for the CL are in the bottom 10 inches of a 25 inch tall tank. How can I test for air leaks into the system? I have two unions one on intake and one on output side of pump. I am using a 5600 gph pump and then everything else is glued pvc or spa flex. and then threaded into bulkheads. You can see pictures here:
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/243583/my-new-tank-125g-rr
Ideas?
A second issue is there are also microbubbles coming from the sump fuge return...now there are a lot of bubbles generated when the water falls from the overflow into the two chambers below...also...I was told to get the 1.25" durso for my 1.5" bulkhead...but I don't think I am getting enough flow through it because I am redirecting about 80-90% of my return pump back into the skimmer chamber...also is that right? Should overflow from return pump go to skimmer chamber or fuge chamber? Ideas?

 

[squidd]

How long has the CL been running,,(new setup??) Possible there is small amount of trapped air and it ill work its way out..
First place to check is pump itself...cap over impeller intake line...then check and tighten Q/D "unions" and then start reglueing "intake side" plumbing...

 

[stimpy4242]

It has been running for about a week now since I redid some plumbing on the outlet side..i did add a union on that side which I had left out as well. Before this it ran without any bubbles at all...So if air would not work itself out in 1 week I will wait some more...plus I guess I really need to see how it does with the bottom sump off, because it just grabs those microbubbles and blows them around too....but I DO KNOW that the top is producing as well...

 

[stimpy4242]

Well upon another check it appears that there are no bubbles coming from the CL system...that was a relief...thanks to squidd for advice on letting it run for some time...so now, here is the next question..obviously the microbubbles are coming from the sump...ok so i was told to put in a 1.25" durso standpipe through my 1.5" bulkhead...it seems I am not getting nearly enough flow this way, as the majority 80-90% of my return pump mag24 is being redirected back to the sump...this is probably causing way to much flow through sump not allowing microbubbles to escape...does this sound probable?

 

[saltn00b]

ok so it was just that the CLS was recirculating your sumps microbubbles, right? good, problem 1 is solved. problem 2, is that you got your info wrong. 1.25" Durso stand is ideal for 1" bulkhead. Durso should always be a little larger than the bulkhead, to squeeze more flow though than it is rated for. so a) replace the durso with a 1.75" durso.
then B) the micro bubbles are coming from the ledge drop of water into the chamber before the pump, correct? can you adjust your baffles at all? maybe try over filling your water in the sump so that it is deep , and not causing bubbles, see if that fixes it?

 

[stimpy4242]

Its not coming from the ledge drop...
Here is the problem and I guess I won't know until i get the right stand pipe...
1. Water comes rushing out of overflow pipes into sump and fuge...lots of bubbles there...because of smaller pipe???
2. The return pump is mag 24 and with about 6' head and some fittings pushing about 1200 gph through tank, however when I try to push it all through tanks fills up to high and the sump empties...because of the smaller pipe???
3. Since 80-90% of the return pump is heading back to skimmer side of fuge, perhaps that is causing a high flow not allowing baffles to do their job...should my overflow from my return pump go to skimmer side of fuge side?
4. I can unscrew durso standpipe...minor issue..but he recommended that size...you sure 1.5" won't be sufficient? Do they even make 1.75" pvc?

 

[saltn00b]

you can do exactly 1.5, but you can get more flow with bigger durso. ya know you might be right , they dont make a 1.75 - not sure tho. 2" would be massive, but it could be done. depends on how much room you have to work with.
a lot of your problem is coming from the restricted down flow. you should have your drain into either side of the sump submerged about 1" under the surface and on a 45 degree angle. this should reduce bubbles. it will get more turbulent with the bigger Durso, but your pipe will not have to be restricted as much, or if at all.

 

[squidd]

If you have room in overflow box build a 1 12" durso...
Redirecting 80%+ back to sump can be part of issue as well as waste of flow and electricty...
Bubbles coming "down" the pipe are normal, should be traped in overflow chamber and baffles before hitting return pump chamber...if sump is set up correctly...

 

[stimpy4242]

1.5" durso is built, will put in today...you know even when i was just allowing water to flow through the bulkhead earlier, there were still some very fine microbubbles that made it all the way to the return pump...i have 1" baffles from both skimmer and fuge side there are three, two up one down with 2" space from bottom...so I assume its built correctly...there is certainly a lot of water coming from the pipe that drains down from the tank...will update in a bit

 

[mpls man]

stimpy...i like the pics of your closed loop, i want to do the same thing only just having the overflows drilled into the back of my 110, right now i have them marked them on the back about 4" down and 2' in on the back hopefully you can see from the pic belowthe 2 white spots on the back, would it be better to have the outlits down towards the bottom of the tank, i was thinking of only having 2 outlits, running in my coralife 1270 gph pump, then through my OceanMotion 4 way wavemaker.
what do you think ??

 

[stimpy4242]

You say overflow and that makes me think you are talking about two different things...overflow generally are to feed water to the sump below. With a CL system you have an intake side and a discharge side. In my setup my intake is a 2" intake which blows to 4 1" discharges. Two of the discharges are on the back wall of the tank on the far left and right about 8" off the bottom and the two others are coming up from the bottom of the tank into the rock support structure and will be hidden in the rockwork. My intake is close to my left justified overflow and is also 8" from the bottom. Once i finish aquascaping nothing will be visible. I would have like to go through an oceans motion device, and I may change it in the future to do so, but money did not allow at this time. Although I think with the different locations of the discharges there is more than enough random flow, but I still think the OM would be better. You mention your pump is about 1270gph...keep in mind how much head you will be dealing with. I have more discharges than you, but I am using a 5600gph pump and in my oppinion i think it is just enough...a lot of head is being killed with the friction loss of the piping.

 

[stimpy4242]

I just can't do it...so i put in the 1.5" durso and thats great and all, but microbubbles are just going right into the top tank. I don't know what to do. The baffles are 1" a piece three of them like all other baffles. Water on the skimmer side is slightly above the first baffle, then it goes down through filterfloss now and back up the other side and to the return pump....water is also slight above third baffle. Fuge side, water cascades down first baffle about 6" inches through filter floss and into return pump again slightly above third baffle. I don't know what else to do. seems like all of the bubbles are being made from the two feeds into the sump/fuge from the durso...lots of bubbles generated there...durso says i should have them just below the surface a couple inches...i also added T to the bottoms of the pipe, someone said that helps...any other suggestions??? SIGH

 

[saltn00b]

you are using filter floss on the down sections of the baffles? i think most, like myself use bubble foam at the top of the UP sections.can you post a pic of the sump, it would be easier to see it.

 

[stimpy4242]

The return pump is a pondmaster or mag 24. That is 2400 gph heading up a vertical run of 6' Discharging through two 1/2" loc line. The pipe to that point is 1". This would give me a total head pressure of 8.88 feet saying it runs at 1316 gph before it hits those two 1/2" loc line which has to slow it down even more...so it can't be too fast can it? I mean how fast should water flow through a sump...anyone have any movies of theirs?

 

[stimpy4242]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
you are using filter floss on the down sections of the baffles? i think most, like myself use bubble foam at the top of the UP sections.can you post a pic of the sump, it would be easier to see it.
yes the down part now, i had it on the up part...seemed better on the down part...plus if I push too much in there in backs up the section before it, if too little it just pushes right out.

 

[stimpy4242]

Also when I say bubbles, i do mean teeny tiny bubbles...there should be absolutely NO bubbles in the main tank right?

 

[saltn00b]

yea i saw that pic before, i meant of it running.
there should be no bubbles in the DT. if you have something making bubbles, and these bubbles get sucked into a pump, they get diced into micro bubbles and spewed into the next section and so on so forth. so once you stop the bubbles getting pulled into pumps, it will take a while for everything to clear out, but it will.

 

[stimpy4242]

Well lets work on getting it stopped first...again the bubbles are created from the overflows into each chamber...baffles are helping i guess, but still bubbles are making it to return pump...I have stuffed baffles with filter floss but that only backs up the chambers until the completly fill over the middle baffle or the pressure of it filling eventually forces floss out....if you think I only need a little floss and just need a way to keep it from leaving the baffle I can try making something. I have put floss around the actual strainer for the pump intake which is pretty much wide open the strainer just has a few fins all the way arround...no sponger or like holes...so while the floss was where it was stuffed in the baffles not coming out, there were NO bubbles entering DT.

 

[stimpy4242]

Could it be too much flow? Meaning can too fast a flow just screw the baffles...or do you think the flow I described above seems just fine?

 

[saltn00b]

have you tried bubble sponge instead of floss?