Milky White Water

fishykah

fishykah

New Member
Hi all.
I'm BRAND NEW to the group... I haven't had my tank in nearly 10 years (
), but during the time that I did have it, I experienced what, to this day, I can only describe as an 'unsolved mystery.'
Before I describe what the problem was, let me say that I've educated myself quite a bit since I had to part with my tank (125gl, fish only, no live rock, 40gl. wet/dry sump). That said, no one I've talked to yet has heard of or can explain what I'll describe now...
Tank cycled normally and was functioning normally for nearly 5 months. All water chemistry -- from what I can remember -- was within normal ranges. Nothing terribly out of whack -- SG, nitrates, pH, etc. -- all normal.
Fish load was relatively minimal. I think I had 12 fish total -- 5 or 6 of which were dinky damsels.
Overnight one day, I woke up to find what looked like MILK in the tank. Fish were not showing signs of stress (when they'd swim close enough to the glass so I could see them), water chemistry was still reading normally, and no one had died (yet).
Couldn't ever figure out what had caused this. Stumped my LFS folks too. I ended up polishing the water with a canister filter, and the milky appearance cleared up within about 48 hours. ...only to return regularly ever 6 weeks or so.
Something was obviously going on, but I never was able to figure out what. Eventually sold the tank because of it; part-time college job couldn't support the problems I was having.
Anyone have ANY clue?? I'm hoping to get back into the hobby again before too long. But before I do, I'm hoping you all can lend a little insight to this problem that's haunted me, of sorts, for several years. TIA for your thoughts. Back to lurking...
:confused: Kelli
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
I had a similiar problem in a FW tank during startup. Same thing. finally went away because i had way too much lighting on the tank. I first cut it down from 24/7 to like 10 hours per day. then had to black out half the lighting. And the clouiness went away for good.
I also had in salt some new macros die or go sexual or whatever. again an increase in nutrients and the water became very cloudy with a white cloud. Tried carbon and other filters. Finally turning off the lights for two weeks cleared it up. Then when the lights returned the plant life in the tank could keep up and the water remained clear.
It can be dangerous to just turn the lights off. But in both cases, white cloudy water cleared up by lights off and remained clear.
I suspect you need to add plant life to consume the nitrAtes and phosphates from your fish. So you may want to add some plant life. But from my experiences above you probably will have to kill off the milkey water also.
 
fishykah

fishykah

New Member
TOO MUCH light?! :notsure: Really?!
Or too much of a certain kind of light? Is there such thing as 'wrong' light? I honestly don't recall what exact bulbs I was using, but it wasn't anything as sophisticated as MH or anything like that. I was using 4 bulbs -- 48" ones, I think -- two 50/50's and two actinics (don't know if they were 'true' or not).
The lights were on a timer; 12 hours on, 12 hours off.
Interesting beaslbob. Thanks for the response. So you're thinking something was 'blooming' in the tank?
Kelli
 
rbmount

rbmount

Active Member
Did your fish get waaaay overfed? My grandson loaded my fw tank with food and my water was like milk.
 
fishykah

fishykah

New Member
I don't think overfeeding was the problem. If anything, they were probably underfed. I was particularly anal about making sure all food was consumed so 'leftovers' weren't left floating around the tank, getting sucked into the filter, bits getting lodged under rock, etc.
I do suspect I had high levels or an imbalance of SOMETHING, but I don't know what.
At least four of the fish contributed significant bio-load: a lionfish, Diane Hogfish, an eel, and a couple tangs (man, can those things POOP!).
That said, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate all measured zero to minimal.
Crazy, huh?
 
dburr

dburr

Active Member
Being that was years ago you'll prolly never know what it was. You can't go back and measure water quality so I won't even suggest what it was.
Having said that, I will tell you that every tank is different. You may or MAY NOT experience that again. Come on back into salt, this is a great way to start back up again. Info, info, info.
BTW, welcome to the board.
Dan
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member

Originally posted by FishyKAH
I don't think overfeeding was the problem. If anything, they were probably underfed. I was particularly anal about making sure all food was consumed so 'leftovers' weren't left floating around the tank, getting sucked into the filter, bits getting lodged under rock, etc.
I do suspect I had high levels or an imbalance of SOMETHING, but I don't know what.
At least four of the fish contributed significant bio-load: a lionfish, Diane Hogfish, an eel, and a couple tangs (man, can those things POOP!).
That said, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate all measured zero to minimal.
Crazy, huh?
Actually i suspected phosphates. Which could be feeding an algae bloom. but all I know is that white clouds as well as green clouds clear up after a period of lights off.
 
fishykah

fishykah

New Member
Hmmm... all good thoughts.
Yes, I was running a skimmer.
I'd like to know more about the calcium precipitation and phosphate theories.
What does one do to prevent or remedy either?
Just asking so I know for next time (which will hopefully be sooner than later).
Thanks!
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member

Originally posted by FishyKAH
Hmmm... all good thoughts.
Yes, I was running a skimmer.
I'd like to know more about the calcium precipitation and phosphate theories.
What does one do to prevent or remedy either?
Just asking so I know for next time (which will hopefully be sooner than later).
Thanks!

From what I gather here, calcium precipitation usually occurs when doing things like dripping calc, additives, or with calcium reactors. I have never used those methods and have never had a precipitate.
My suspecting phosphates is from my experience. I have had cloudy water with no measurable ammonia, nitrItes, and constant nitrAtes. One source is tap water where phosphates are added to coat the plumbing. That coating isolates the water from such thing as copper. So when you use tap water those phosphates are present in new setups. Resulting in the initial brown algae bloom. As they are consumed, that algae turns green. And the system is able to consume those phosphates.
A second (and more important) source is the food. So feeding and overfeeding can raise phosphates. And I once did cut down on feeding for a very slight cloud and the water cleared in a couple of days.
phosphates as stated are plant food so can result in an algae bloom. So after I had a new batch of macros die (or go sexual) the white cloudy water cleared up after two weeks of lights out. The tank remained clear after lights on as the other plant life was able to consume the nutrients without the bloom. No other action was required. No water changes, or filtration.
Whatever the source of phosphates, plant life will consume it. Just as it will ammonia, nitrAtes and carbon dioxide. And prevent the cloud from happening in the first place.
But with insufficient plant life cloudy water can happen as you found out even with filtration.
 
broomer5

broomer5

Active Member
Kelli
Were you performing regular water changes every 6 weeks or so ? If so - that could explain a calcium precipitation in a fish only tank - which could explain the milky white water condition.
 
fishykah

fishykah

New Member
I was doing regular water changes. But were they every 6 weeks to coincide with this phenomenon? Gosh, I honestly don't remember, but seems to me they (the water changes) were more frequent than every 6 weeks.
Kelli (still stumped, but learning a lot) :happyfish
 
dreeves

dreeves

Active Member
White milky water is usually an indicater of a bacterial bloom. What was causing it, who knows. Once the source ceased, the bacteria will die off and the cycle could continue if the source wasnt removed.
 
fishykah

fishykah

New Member
Thanks, dreeves.
Now, because I'm terribly novice at SW still, I have to ask:
What are some possible sources of an on-going bacterial bloom? In other words, what is it that I'll want to remove -- either periodically or on a continuous basis -- that would create such a problem? Sorry if that sounds like a REALLY elementary-level question.
[here's me] --->

You guys are the best. Thanks for all the great information.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Bacterial blooms (die offs) happen when the bioload suddenly decreases. A good example is using raw fish to cycle the tank. When the shrip is removed or decomposes, the bioload is suddenly decreased. the extra bacteria dies off.
Generally when that happens only one cleaning up with filtration is necessary. The fact that your system clouds up again suggest to me it is more some continuous load. Hence the need for continued plant action.
 
dburr

dburr

Active Member
I'd like to know more about the calcium precipitation and phosphate theories.
Precipitation is when your calcium is at it's saturation limit. When it goes over it falls out the bottom and you have a snowstorm in the tank. I doubt water changes can do this, or a calcium reactor either. B-ionic or a calcium additive will.
Phosphate basiclly feeds algae. Not sure what Bob was saying.:notsure: But phosphates are found in tap water and food.(that much I understood.) RO/DI water helps and high quality food. That limits what is going in for phosphates. If it was a algae bloom, their are other ways of controling it. I had a bad green water algae that I used a whisper filter and had to use a very fine filter material to polish the water.
I believe their are different types of bacteria that causes blooms. A sudden drop in bioload I don't think will do it. My searpant star killed 2 of my fish in 3 days and I took out my yellow tang for trade. My water did not cloud up. I now have only 2 fish left.
Good luck on your NEW tank, and we will help you. You will prolly never know about the old.
Dan
 
T

thomas712

Guest
FishyKAH
First off welcome to the baord.
A couple of questions about your water changes.
What type of water were you using?
How did you mix and put it in your system?
Thomas
 
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