Mistake with risk...Flame Angel

[krazykarel]

Well guys unfortunately this post is not a good one...my ammonia level rose and my flame angel is having problems... can you guys please give me some quick suggestions?
I introduced a Flame Angel a week ago and everything was fine until this morning. He was doing upside down circles (i know this isn't a good sign). Up until now he had been eating well, looking good, and behaving good. I think the problem is ammonia... I tested the water and the ammonia was at .25 is this what is doing him or did him in??
Since i recently introduced him I figured that this was normal.
At this point is there anything i can do? Should i do a 5-10% H20 change right now?
Where did I go wrong...please give me all your critique so i can learn from this mistake.
Tank specs: 55g w/30lbs live rock, 60lbs of sand, and a wet dry system with a Berlin Skimmer. Tank has been running for 3 months.

 

[fishgirl]

It's gotta be the ammonia - do the water change. If you have a QT, move your angel to that so if he gets parasites under the stress they won't spread to your other fish. What else do you have in there? Do you have cleaner shrimp? Was there anybody bullying the angel?

 

[dugan]

Only things I can think of are that your tank is overstocked or you had a die-off of some type causing the ammonia spike.
What other fish & critters do you have in the tank?
Definitely get him into a QT. It may be too late but I think it's your only hope at this point. I'd do a water change as well.
Let us know how it goes...
Katie

 

[krazykarel]

I only have a maroon gold stripe clown in there with the angel...no signs of fighting, the clown is smaller and the angel more agressive.
My risk was puting in this sensitive fish too soon and that is what prob happened. Although the readings before i put him in were pristine ( Ammonia=0, nitrite=0, nitrate=5 Salinity=1.024 Temp= 78-79)
the tank is only 3 mos old and i knew i was taking a risk and some people advised me on this and i did not listen...this is a mistake i wont make again hopefully.

 

[jups1]

What's the ph? Flames are very sensitive to changes in ph levels. You want to get the ammonia down, but unless you threw the fish in w/o acclimating, I'd be suprised that the ammonia would affect it that quickly. It's possible there was something wrong w/the fish to begin with. Do small water changes, and watch the ph very closely. Any small change can mess up a flame. And if you do have a qt tank - it might be a good idea to put him in there anyway. Always want to qt fish before placing in the main tank, for this reason. Hope it makes it. Good luck. Juli

 

[krazykarel]

The ph was at 8.2-8.4 I just found something new out...my hydrometer was "off" a "little" bit! Im soooo upset right now...my water was at 1.020 holy cow! That's almost brakish!
I raised the salinity to 1.024...the Angel hasn't died yet and actually looks way better than this morning. He's not swiming upside down but he definetely doesn't look right...when he stops swiming he looks like he is bending.
Any other suggestions?

 

[jups1]

Yes - salinity will also affect a flame. Good thing you caught it.
Also- hope you raised it slowly - raising it too fast will cause further shock. The shock is what kills most flames.
Hope he makes it - they are beautiful fish. Juli
[ June 13, 2001: Message edited by: jups1 ]

 

[krazykarel]

Well the little guy is still alive and looking better. He still looks like he is swimming with pain. Is there something i could do for him at this point?

 

[slk3599]

I was reading a post about Flame Angels on another BB. It is a real eye opener about the mortality rates in Flames. This is a long post but please read as it contains very informative information about why they have become so hard to keep.
A poster named Tanu writes:
I often talk to the owner of a lfs in here. He says, that the mortality of Hawaiian Flame Angel fish was about 0 a few years ago. Now, mortalities seem to increase. He doesn't even import flames at all. Other fish from Hawaii, seem to get worse too. Yellow tangs, 8-line wrasses (Ps. octataenia) have the same problem. They look healty, eat, suddenly they start to 'circle' through the water, and just drop dead. I saw it happening today. Very worse sight. All of the Hawaiian fish imported look great, after some weeks most start to develop flesh wounds, blisters, bloody blisters, the most strange things! Neither keeping the fish in a medicine solution doesn't help here, nor keeping them in a healty system with ozone. The only thing that can be done is accept mortalities and keeping them in a full blown reef. There their chances increase.. This is what this lfs does with 'bad' fish. They just put them in a large (500 G) reef. Here they have a chance to get better. After a few months he lets someone catch them and puts them back in the sales-tanks..
In one of the last German magazines, Der Koralle, there was an article written by a ethologist/aquarist, E. Thaler. She did some research on these problems. She wrote about the following:
Some fish that were easy to keep a few years ago (some gobies, many wrasses, angels) suddenly are hard to keep. In her opinion this problem depends on the following:
- Many fish are 'preventive' kept with antibiotics. This may prevent disease, but the chemicals also kill the inner flora of the fish. The fish eat, but cannot digest the foods.
- Many fish are kept/transported in HORMONE solutions. In Europe, hormone use is prohibited exept for medicinal use. I think no one has ever done a search on hormone levels in the water of these fish, but she strikingly showed pics of wrasses (cannot remember it's name) in nature, in nature while mating, and freshly imported. With these pictures she stated, that MANY fish were standard hormone treated to give them more beautiful colors. The wrasse in this case normally has striking colors, which were even more pronounced while mating. ALL imported individuals she did a research on showed these colors constantly!
- Other chemicals were also used to decrease mortality in transit, to show even better colors, and so on.. Only a few weeks after arrivement at the dealer the problems start to show up.
Just think about this..
Tanu

 

[krazykarel]

Slk thanks for the article...i had read that article surfing on the net, that cyanide deal is interesting you would think that they would change their method when the lfs would stop ordering from them...hopefully it is just a matter of time.
Sammy: I did increase feeding...i have about 30lbs of LR and 60lbs of sand. Also have a wet/dry with with a berlin skimmer. The angel was rapidly breathing...he doesn't appear to be doing that today, but it is difficult for me to see him, he is always darting in and out from the rocks. When you mentioned that black spots, where would i look for them?
He ate a few brine today adn doesn't appear to be in as much pain swimming as he was before. Should the water change done be in a small quantity?
THanks for your help guys

 

[dugan]

How's he doing? Hoping he's recovered...

Katie