My Atlantic Blue has Ick?

urluckypen

Member
I have Atlantic Blue that I just picked up last week. He has been fine and havent done a water change since putting him in. All my levels are fine and havent had flux in temperature~~everything is normal. Today he was fine when i left this morning and when i came home tonight after several hours I see white spots on him~~sure its ick?? I heard that tangs are notorious for ick~~any suggestions? I hear kick ick is good but will it hurt my corals?? Im going to do a water change tommorrow? or should I wait until i treat him? Also I havent introduced any fish to my tank since him a few coarls though?
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Once you have properly diagnosed that it is ich you may want to transfer the animal to a QT tank and start hyposalinity. Many ways for ich to enter a system...but usually on a host or in water/free swimming stage.
Since there are other hosts remaining in the tank....the disease will still likely be present when you move him back from QT. THe only full-proof way to break the cycle is to remove all hosts and let the system run fallow for 6 weeks.
Please save you money on those so-called reef safe treatments. Should the lfs or another hobbyist recommend one of these miracle cures ask them this....how can the miracle cure only kill one invert and leave all the others alone? It defies logic!!!...but I will listen to a documented explanation that can prove this selective nuking.
 

urluckypen

Member
Thanks~im only three months into the hobby and dont have a hospital tank? what do do about thta? Atlantic blue costed me 50.00 and hate to loose hom.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Some fish can kick the disease on their own once enviornmental conditions improve or the animals immune system improves. Try feeding the tang with some garlic soaked food. Large careful water changes can also remove some of the swimmers and some careful substrate vacuuming. This is a crap shoot as far as the vacuuming and water changes....based on the luck of timing. Also need to be craeful not to cause stress with the changes......not a good method but your options are limited.
Check to make sure no one is picking/tormenting him...will also lead to disease if present in the system.
DO NOT ADD COPPER TO THE DISPLAY TANK
 

ricks280

Member
urluck, ive got the same problem with my hyppo tang, comes and goes, i havent got another tank so what ive been doing is feeding him well ( to keep him fat) plenty of nori shimp, prawns) he eats like a horse! but all the food he gets has been soaked in garlick
most of the spots have gone. see how u go
(rick)
 

urluckypen

Member
Thanks everyone and rick! Hey rick what kind of garlic do i get~im going to lfs tomm. and going to a 20% water change.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
You should also slowly raise your temp to about 82 ...make sure you have lots of water movement.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
THe benefits of garlic..a cut and paste from Jorge Cortes..wish I could link to but cannot due to rules.....for what it's worth...
In a parasitic protozoan infestation similar to Marine Ich, there are usually two major insults to the host fish's physiology:
1. the gross tissue damage committed by the protozoans themselves;
2. and the secondary infections that crash the party.
The applicability of such a broad-spectrum antiseptic as contained in garlic towards fending off secondary infections should be obvious, so I will set aside secondary infections at this point. Allicin has been observed to suppress the efficacy of cysteine proteinase and alcohol dehydrogenase, two tissue-demolition agents produced by another protozoan parasite, Entamoeba histolytica, (Ankri et.al., 1997), and one can easily extrapolate how garlic medication might limit the invasive and predatory damage caused directly by C. irritans.
Still, what generates as much (if not more) speculation is not the ability of garlic to restrict damage, but rather garlic's apparent ability to deliver damage to the parasites themselves -with numerous claims of outright detachment of C. irritans trophonts (the burrowing protozoans) and tomonts (the "egg cysts") as a result.
The aforementioned ability of allicin to permeate tissue and mucus enables it to invest an afflicted area thoroughly with its partially sulfurous chemical signature. The potential is there to mask the chemical cues that enable a parasite's recognition of the host, potentially confusing the invader and further suppressing the havoc it wreaks. (Indeed this would help uninfested fish dodge "Marine Ich").
Definitely, allicin brings outright chemical assault to the parasite. In one test, allicin’s cytotoxicity fell heavily against the parasitic protozoans Trypanosoma spp. and Giardia lamblia in concentrations that were well within the tolerance of 'host-tissue' fibroblasts (Lun et.al., 1994). The same penetrating power that ensures thorough investiture of the contested tissue with protective and camouflaging agents can also ensure thorough delivery of allicin's antagonism to --indeed, into-- invading parasites.
Lastly (though certainly, other properties may yet be discovered), allicin is said to reinforce the cues for cellular apoptosis, the mechanism of programmed cell-death (Thatte et.al., 2000). An innate mechanism such as apoptosis, guided with care, has the potential to severely limit the spread of say, cancer, by motivating cancerous cells to quickly self-terminate before they can multiply. If such a 'scorched earth' defense can be triggered by an infestation episode and be guided/reinforced by allicin, then yet another way may be revealed how garlic hinders both the ability of parasites to feed on host tissue and any opportunity for secondary infections to spread.
So roughly, garlic therapy can potentially
1. fend off secondary infection;
2. neutralize the chemicals used by the parasite to destroy host tissue;
3. mask host tissue, making it difficult for the parasite to recognize it;
4. deliver outright damage to the parasite.
 

ophiura

Active Member
I make some home made food and throw cloves of garlic in there. Good stuff

What sort of conditions do you have in the tank? Other inhabitants, age, water quality?
I recently had an issue with Ick after the introduction of a coral beauty who didn't get along with my Kole tang. I thought things had calmed down for awhile but bam, the Ick set in. I removed the primary stress (the new fish), fed heavily with garlic foods...but I believed that once the stress was removed (and assuming the fish is still eating well, etc), it would recover. It did take several "cycles" to go away. The next cycle was pretty heavy (almost took him out for hypo), then of course it was gone for a couple of days, the next cycle was a bit less intense, went away, next cycle the fish was clearly "irritated" but no obvioius signs of ick, and then nothing else..took a couple of weeks. So it took some time but once the stress was removed it worked in my case. I don't recommend this, but if the source of stress is obvious it may be a reasonable course of action. It does NOT however insure an ick free system and the next stressor that comes along could result in another outbreak.
 

mr_bill

Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
I make some home made food and throw cloves of garlic in there. Good stuff

I do the same as far as the clove goes, but how are you chopping yours? I sit there for a long time chopping and chopping to get as small as possible but was wondering if smashing might be a better idea. I use a eye dropper to feed my fish so I need the bits pretty small.
 

mr_bill

Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
Well I put everything in a blender and then freeze it...so the blender handles it for me


LUCKY!!
My wife wont let me use the blender. :mad:
My fingers still smell like garlic.
 

ophiura

Active Member
LOL...it pays to be the wife
But then blenders are pretty cheap and it does cut down on prep time (you can make a bunch, freeze it, cut it into little squares, and make your own frozen food - saves time and money! and you can put lots of stuff in it). So maybe invest in your own fish food blender? If not new then I am even sure the Good Will or something would have one for real cheap. Doesn't need bells and whistles
 

zman1

Active Member
One other suggestion... Buy the wife a new super nice blender ...... What a sweet guy you are. Then you will have to dispose of the old blender. Two birds, one stone.
 

mr_bill

Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1
One other suggestion... Buy the wife a new super nice blender ...... What a sweet guy you are. Then you will have to dispose of the old blender. Two birds, one stone.
That would be a perfect plan, but the old blender died and the new one is some kind of super duper thing that I have no idea why she got because all she uses it for is to make margaritas, but anyway... how about one of those little mini food processors? I saw a pretty nice one for around 20 dollars, holds about 1.5 cups. Do you use special cube trays? How about plastic wrap over the tray to keep smells from getting into the rest of the freezer?
I love the idea of making my food on the weekends and freezing it so I don't have as much work to do in the kitchen on the weekdays.
 

ophiura

Active Member
I'm not sure about the processor...I don't have one so I'm not sure but I would think you could get a blender somewhere in the neighborhood, no? Mine's pretty old so I don't know.
I put mine in a thin layer in a pie dish...as it sets I score it. Then I take it out in whatever sizes I get it but can break it along the score and I put it in some gladware type container. I think that Beth does something different...
 

mr_bill

Active Member
Do you all swap recipes? I use Formula1, Omega3 brine, and garlic. Any other little goodies I might want to look at?
 
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