My first Sump ...many questions ...hear are a few :-)

[sundance2011]

I have a 20G long tank I am going to use for my sump (assuming I can drill it). Is that going to be big enough for my 80g tank? If not what is recommended? Also I am looking at a Tom Aquatics Pro Series Surface Skimmer Overflow Box for my main tank, it's not drilled. I can't seem to find what size tank this will service, does anyone know? Is this a good choice, is there something better in that price range?
Thanks

 

[snakeblitz33]

A 20g long is perfect for an 80g tank. Why do you want to drill your sump? Are you going to have an external water pump? If you're not going to have an external water pump, then I suggest looking into getting an Eheim or a Mag Drive internal pump. Get your glass cut at a glass shop and use aquarium grade, non-toxic, non-antimicrobial/mold/mildew Silicone to put them in place. Use masking tape to get your baffles in the right spots and to clean up your silicone marks.
For overflow boxes, some people use CPR's, but I don't recommend it. I suggest getting an Eshopps for half the cost. As long as you have the proper pump with the proper overflow box, there won't be any problems.

 

[sundance2011]

Only reason I would drill the sump is I don't know any better at this point. I have just been searching on the web to get designs and idea and some drill and some just come in from the top. Also you say "glass" dividers. I see lexan used often as well. Any reason to use glass over Lexan? Do you have an image of your sump design?

 

[sundance2011]

How big of a lift pump do I need? Will a Ehiem model 1048 ( about 160 GPH) be big enough?

 

[snakeblitz33]

Oh, lol. Naa, you don't have to drill your sump. lol. Just use an internal submersible pump, especially on such a small display tank.
Lexan is sometimes used, but you will have to clean the edges and rough the edges up with sandpaper really well before silicone will stick to it. If you just use regular glass you don't have to do any other prep work besides cutting it. Glass has a much better seal than plastic panels/baffles.
Here's an old pic of my tank

The lit part is a screen that grows algae - it's an algae scrubber - it filters the water by removing nitrate and phosphate and heavy metals and other toxic impurities by way of growing hair algae. It also will saturate your water with oxygen and not trap particulate organic matter the way filter floss does.
I'll get an updated pic and post it soon.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I just moved the tank today. So, everything is a bit cloudy still. I don't know if you can see it or not, but the return pump is on the furthest left, the algae scrubber is in the middle and live rock is underneath it, and then the overflow output is on the right. There's also a rio 1100 pump that I use for the algae scrubber on the right. The sump I am using is a 10g tank. I hope this helps.
The best baffle arrangement is an "under, over, under" style, where the water goes under the first baffle, over the middle baffle, and under the last baffle.

 

[snakeblitz33]

You said that your main display tank is not drilled? If it's not drilled, then these are the two must have pieces of equipment IF you even want a sump.
Eshopps 800 overflow (rated for 800gph MAX) ~$53
Mag Drive 9.5 internal submersible pump. ~$108
You will need to buy a check valve, 2 ball/gate valve, and a union when you do your PVC work to plumb it to your system. I also recommend getting some Rainbow Loclines so that your return plumbing looks better in your tank. The Ball or Gate valve is used to throttle back your pump so that your overflow can keep up, which I don't think will be any problem at all. It's just insurance. The other ball valve you use for a relief valve, which you make a T off of your main return pump line and put the outflow at the beginning of your sump or to run a separate refugium. It just depends on what all you want to do.
You may also need to look into these two pumps for internal water flow:
2x Koralia 1400
or
1x Koralia 5 magnum
I suggest using two powerheads instead of one. That way, you can direct one powerheads flow upwards, and one powerheads flow downwards and across. It covers the entire aquarium so you won't have any dead spots.

 

[sundance2011]

Think I will just stick with my canister for a while longer. A bit more work and cost than I expected to do a sump. I'll start building parts here and there and set it up in 6 months or so. My main concern is with the siphon of the overflow box. I hear a lot about loosing suction and overflowing the tank.

 

[acrylic51]

I've run siphon overflow boxes for years and never had issues with the overflow box picking a siphon back up after shutting power down during maintenance.....Very odd that it would....The U tubes would still contain, and be submerged in water, and the siphon shouldn't be broken.....Just my .02

 

[saxman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/387962/my-first-sump-many-questions-hear-are-a-few#post_3417980
I've run siphon overflow boxes for years and never had issues with the overflow box picking a siphon back up after shutting power down during maintenance.....Very odd that it would....The U tubes would still contain, and be submerged in water, and the siphon shouldn't be broken.....Just my .02
Agreed...the only time my U-tube type HOB O/F broke siphon was if I broke the siphon myself. Never had any "power-off" issues. And FWIW, you don't need a check valve if your system is properly dialed-in, they just cost money and give you a false sense of well-being as they can fail (stick open) too.

 

[sundance2011]

Good to hear, i had my worries about the HOB OFB but it sounds like it's rare there are issues. Did you (acrylic51 and Saxman) build your own sump or purchase one? BTW, this is the video I have been referencing to build my sump.

 

[2quills]

Someone say video?
DIY sumps are very simple to build. Just order some pieces of glass for your baffles from a local glass shop, 1/4" thickness. Simply provide them with the dimensions and they will cut them to the sizes you need. Typically the plastic baffles you see people using are acrylic, not lexan (polycarbonate). Biggest reason being is that lexan is very expensive for the thickness of material you'll need to have in order for the plastic baffles to not flex or bow on you, which can causing them to let go. Glass if far cheaper for this purpose. Probably about $20 or so for all of them.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Yup, one $7 sheet of glass was fine for my little 10g sump, and I even had enough left over after the DIY. Of course, I cut the glass myself...

 

[saxman]

I DIY most of our sumps, but I use acrylic baffles, even if it's a glass sump. Since the baffles aren't structural, silicone holds 1/4" acrylic in place just fine.

 

[snakeblitz33]

If I recall correctly, this is what it cost me to do my sump:
$11 for 10g tank
$7 for glass
$40 for the overflow
$23 for the rio 1100 return pump
$1.80 for vinyl tubing
$5 for PVC
$2 for silicone
---
~$90
Of course, I had extra hose clamps and a few other parts and pieces laying around unused.

 

[sundance2011]

What about the Mag Drive 9.5 internal submersible pump. ~$108. You said I would need one of these in a earlier post but you don't list it. Is my tank size the reason for the $100 pump rather than the $23 pump? 90 bucks is not bad, I was figuring 200. Of course I would need a bigger OF box so that might be $50 or $60 instead of $40 for the one you are using.

 

[saxman]

To be honest, I wouldn't run a Rio in a critical, non-redundant application. I dunno how they are now, but they used to have a bad habit of not restarting after power interruptions, which you DON'T want if the Rio is your main pump. They also used to have a problem with burning up.
The Mag should be fine for your setup. The 9.5's tend to run a tad warm, but nothing crazy, and are good solid pumps.

 

[2quills]

May want to look into possibly a smaller pump like a mag 5 or 7. Probably a 7. I've seen a few folks now who have tried to run more than a few hundred GPH through there 20g sumps and end up with micro bubble issue making it back to the tank. Then they have to start coming up with all kinds of creative ways to try and illiminate them. There shouldn't be much need to have that much turnover anyways. Unless you're looking to drive other pieces of equipment with the same pump ofcorse then a larger pump could be used. And installing bleeder valves are just an effective way of wasting power consumption. JMO

 

[saxman]

Regardless of what's going on "downstairs", 400 gph (let's assume 100 gph loss from a Mag 5) isn't going to cut it for an 80 gal tank. I ran way more than that on a 50 gal SH setup. i just know that the couple of times I tried to play things "close" regarding pump size, I ended up having to either re-pump the system or add additional flow in other ways. I realize that most folks say "I'll just drop in a PH or two", but PH's look awful, and by the time you buy a couple of PH's, you've spent the same as you'd have spent on a more realistic pump size. IMHO, it's better to consider this in the beginning, but everyone has a preference...

 

[2quills]

Agreed Saxman, that's why I was thinking more along the lines of a seven. I think the issue with going larger than that in this case is going to be sump size. Scotts build is a good example of that. The o.p. is concerned about buget, just don't want to see him waste money on something to large that may cause issues.