My Hyposaline Adventure... (so far)

[tankyou]

... Started out with a smartass know-it-all newb (me) who figured a lot of you experienced folk were too anal about your quarantines.
One inevitable outbeak of ich later I find myself in the position of having to perform my first ever hyposalinity session, while surrendering myself to the tender mercies of the aforementioned experienced folk, and the bitter knowledge that I'm not so smart after all.
Having armed myself with information gleaned from this DB and the net, and with the help of people like Beth and lion_crazz. I was faced with two options:
1) Remove all the LR from my 165 gal. (total) FOWLR system and hypo my fish in place or...
2) Remove the fish to a quarantine wherin I could hypo them, leaving my system unoccupied except for various crustaceans and hitchikers for the six week minimum it takes to rid it of ich.
Although the former was most widely recommended, being a glutton for punishment I chose the latter. I went up into my attic and secured a 33 gallon plastic storage bin full of Xmas ornaments the contents of which I disgorged upon my living-room floor (hell they are gonna be needed soon anyway right?) the bin to serve as my QT, my regular QT being too small to serve the prospective clientele.
After thoroughly rinsing the bin I filled it with DT water so no acclimation would be necessary when I transferred its soon-to-be tenants. To facilitate their capture, I removed my artfully, and meticulously, crafted rockwork to the bin, knowing full-well the look I had so painstakingly crafted, was forever lost. After swiftly netting out the patients into a 5 gal bucket, I transferred my LR back to the DT, then I gently poured alll my fish afflicted or not into the bin.
Here BTW is a list of those fish:
1) YLN Butterfy (My favorite and the only one with several spots)
1) Flame angel (a spot or two my kids said, I didn't see any)
1) Potters angel (flicking and rubbing)
1) Royal Gramma (flicking and rubbing)
1) Yellow Watchman Goby (asymptomatic)
2) Young Tank Raised Perculas (asymptomatic)
All fish had good color and were eating heartily.
After giving the fish an hour or so to settle down I removed six gallons of their water SG 1.25 (1/5 tank volume) and replaced it with six gallons fresh via air tubing. Observed no unusual or alarming behavior.
Waited twelve hours (9:00 am next day) SG 1.18 Fish seemed okay all ate butterfly seemed a little depressed. Changed out another six gallons.
9:00 pm Fish seem fine active and eating well except for gramma who is hiding changed out six gallons
9:00 am Gramma still hiding ph 7.8 changed out six gallons
9:00 pm Added 1 tbs baking soda to freshwater before changeout, changed five gallons water SG 1.11 ph 8.2 slowly added freshwater, overshot mark to SG 1.08 fish are all fine gramma looks healthy but still hiding, don't know if he's eating.
Next morning SG is 1.09 everythings fine but that damn gramma's still hiding.
BTW I'm using a refractometer to obtain SG readings
Added Prime next day due to slight ammonia spike .01
Two days later all parameters fine except for trace ammonia. Fish are fine but butterfly still has spots and gramma still hiding.
Will update as things progress.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Tankyou
... Started out with a smartass know-it-all newb (me) who figured a lot of you experienced folk were too anal about your quarantines.
One inevitable outbeak of ich later I find myself in the position of having to perform my first ever hyposalinity session, while surrendering myself to the tender mercies of the aforementioned experienced folk, and the bitter knowledge that I'm not so smart after all.
Having armed myself with information gleaned from this DB and the net, and with the help of people like Beth and lion_crazz. I was faced with two options:
1) Remove all the LR from my 165 gal. (total) FOWLR system and hypo my fish in place or...
2) Remove the fish to a quarantine wherin I could hypo them, leaving my system unoccupied except for various crustaceans and hitchikers for the six week minimum it takes to rid it of ich.
Although the former was most widely recommended, being a glutton for punishment I chose the latter. I went up into my attic and secured a 33 gallon plastic storage bin full of Xmas ornaments the contents of which I disgorged upon my living-room floor (hell they are gonna be needed soon anyway right?) the bin to serve as my QT, my regular QT being too small to serve the prospective clientele.
After thoroughly rinsing the bin I filled it with DT water so no acclimation would be necessary when I transferred its soon-to-be tenants. To facilitate their capture, I removed my artfully, and meticulously, crafted rockwork to the bin, knowing full-well the look I had so painstakingly crafted, was forever lost. After swiftly netting out the patients into a 5 gal bucket, I transferred my LR back to the DT, then I gently poured alll my fish afflicted or not into the bin.
Here BTW is a list of those fish:
1) YLN Butterfy (My favorite and the only one with several spots)
1) Flame angel (a spot or two my kids said, I didn't see any)
1) Potters angel (flicking and rubbing)
1) Royal Gramma (flicking and rubbing)
1) Yellow Watchman Goby (asymptomatic)
2) Young Tank Raised Perculas (asymptomatic)
All fish had good color and were eating heartily.
After giving the fish an hour or so to settle down I removed six gallons of their water SG 1.25 (1/5 tank volume) and replaced it with six gallons fresh via air tubing. Observed no unusual or alarming behavior.
Waited twelve hours (9:00 am next day) SG 1.18 Fish seemed okay all ate butterfly seemed a little depressed. Changed out another six gallons.
9:00 pm Fish seem fine active and eating well except for gramma who is hiding changed out six gallons
9:00 am Gramma still hiding ph 7.8 changed out six gallons
9:00 pm Added 1 tbs baking soda to freshwater before changeout, changed five gallons water SG 1.11 ph 8.2 slowly added freshwater, overshot mark to SG 1.08 fish are all fine gramma looks healthy but still hiding, don't know if he's eating.
Next morning SG is 1.09 everythings fine but that damn gramma's still hiding.
BTW I'm using a refractometer to obtain SG readings
Added Prime next day due to slight ammonia spike .01
Two days later all parameters fine except for trace ammonia. Fish are fine but butterfly still has spots and gramma still hiding.
Will update as things progress.
Everything sounds good so far with the exception of trace ammonia. You are realy going to have to stay on top of that and be ready to do water changes as needed. You should have some water mixed at 1.009 on hand to do a quick water change if necessary. Let us know how it goes!

 

[lion_crazz]

I agree with Sepulation.
I will continue to read this and help you as needed as you post updates.
Good luck with everything!!

 

[tankyou]

Well my Yellow Longnose Butterfly succumbed this morning, first casualty in hyposalinity and my first saltwater fish ever (got him last August). Really liked that fish, it was my favorite. Watched him enter a death spiral a couple days after started hyposalinity; I hate it when they linger.

Thing is, I think it might have been sick before it manifested ich. I noticed what appeared to be scars, scuffmarks, or some type of opacity and some shredding on its previously pristeen and transparent pectoral and caudal fins. Suspected it might be ich, but wasn't sure, and still am not. I'm thinking it may have been sick with whatever was disfigureing its fins, and its weakened condition may have made it susceptible to the ich attack. Wasn't sure about the ich until definite spots appeared on it's face. As I previously mentioned I haven't seen spots on any of my other fish, but they all went into hypo none the less, and they all seem okay right now, even the gramma who has now shown himself. In fact those that were flicking and rubbing have stopped. Not sure how everyone is eating cause its kind of hard to see with the low light and dark blue color of the bin, but everyone seems normal enough so I'm thinking, I'm going to start my three weeks of symptom-free hyposalinity from today.
I'm pretty sure the ich rode in on a wild-caught sailfin tang I introduced to the tank without quarrantine. That fish hounded and shadowed my poor butterfly to distraction. The poor fish couldn't even get a proper cleaning from my cleaner shrimps, as the tang would insert itself between the butterfly and cleaners at every opportunity. That fish has since been returned to the wild... Never again; I hate tangs.
I'm now wondering how I can keep my tank cycled while my fish are in hypo, I've dropped a few chunks of mahi-mahi into the tank hoping the decomposition would keep the tank cycled, but it is quickly descended upon by my clean-up crew as well as various unwelcome hitchhikers (mostly pistol shrimps and various xanthid crabs). Anyone know how I can rid myself of these undesireable crustaceans?
Performed a 50% water change on Monday, I'm not adding any more baking soda as I have lingering trace ammonia, and I do not wish to heighten its toxicity by keeping my ph up. Not adding anymore Prime right now as I've installed Polyfilter in the HOF hoping to control ammonia. Afraid polyfilter will negate Primes effectiveness. Any thoughts?

 

[lion_crazz]

I am sorry to hear about your butterfly. Other than that, keep us updated on the progress.
All you need to do is feed the display a couple of times in order to keep it cycled.

 

[tankyou]

So far so good, no further losses. Did another 50% water change on Monday, and everyones eating.

 

[lion_crazz]

Good to hear!

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Tankyou
So far so good, no further losses. Did another 50% water change on Monday, and everyones eating.

That's great, keep us posted!!

 

[thejdshow]

grr i know what your going through. I had to do this about a year ago. it is noooo fun. it will be worth it when you get everything back in your display tank. =)

 

[tankyou]

Lost one of my Perculas yesterday, not sure why but its belly was distended. Not sure if that fish was ever quite right, as it always seemed to swim kinda funny. Anyway its sibling seems to be doing fine. My wife comforted me by buying a small Imperator Angel from Xmas Island ($40 bucks). Hope to have it out of quarantine by the time my DT is ready.
Now this morning my gramma is swimming on the surface and his color looks like crap. He's stopped eating and is hiding in his coral. Did a 50% water change and keeping my fingers crossed, but fully expect to find him floating in the morning. Everybody else seems okay.
Tested the water in my DT and the trates were kinda high (25 mg/l), probably cause I haven't done any water changes since I pulled my fish out. Is it okay to let it run like this and just do some changes before the fish are ready to go back in? How hard are trates on crustaceans?
Would like to get some chaeto for my fuge to control the trates, but it is not sold anywhere I know of locally, and mainland stores won't ship anything live to private parties in Hawaii. I'd just go get some off the rocks as I know we have a local variety, but I'm not sure I'd identify it properly, and I don't want to introduce something nasty instead

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Tankyou
Lost one of my Perculas yesterday, not sure why but its belly was distended. Not sure if that fish was ever quite right, as it always seemed to swim kinda funny. Anyway its sibling seems to be doing fine. My wife comforted me by buying a small Imperator Angel from Xmas Island ($40 bucks). Hope to have it out of quarantine by the time my DT is ready.
Now this morning my gramma is swimming on the surface and his color looks like crap. He's stopped eating and is hiding in his coral. Did a 50% water change and keeping my fingers crossed, but fully expect to find him floating in the morning. Everybody else seems okay.
Tested the water in my DT and the trates were kinda high (25 mg/l), probably cause I haven't done any water changes since I pulled my fish out. Is it okay to let it run like this and just do some changes before the fish are ready to go back in? How hard are trates on crustaceans?
Would like to get some chaeto for my fuge to control the trates, but it is not sold anywhere I know of locally, and mainland stores won't ship anything live to private parties in Hawaii. I'd just go get some off the rocks as I know we have a local variety, but I'm not sure I'd identify it properly, and I don't want to introduce something nasty instead

Have you checked the water quality in the qt? Also, nitrates are even harder on inverts/crustations than they are on fish. You will definately want to lower those. They are not extremely high, but are reaching the danger zone. Lets work on figuring out what is stressing your fish in hypo. Please give us updated test results. Also what size is the qt and how many remaining fish? What are you using for water movement?

 

[tankyou]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
Have you checked the water quality in the qt?
Yes
Originally Posted by sepulatian
Also, nitrates are even harder on inverts/crustations than they are on fish. You will definately want to lower those. They are not extremely high, but are reaching the danger zone. Lets work on figuring out what is stressing your fish in hypo. Please give us updated test results. Also what size is the qt and how many remaining fish? What are you using for water movement?
Test results as of a few minutes ago:
Ammonia zero
Trites - <.1, probably like .05
Trates- Are like 20... Wow, had never occured to me to check for trates in the QT cause of frequent water changes.
ph - 8.1
sg - 1.010 (usually 1.009 of course)
Temp. - 82-83
Tank is a 33 gallon rectangular plastic bin with a HOB filter on one end and a small powerhead with sponge filter on the other, situated to provide a circular flow.
Survivors so far are...
1- Sick Gramma
1- Percula (now swimming weird)
1- Flame Angel doing fine
1- Potters doing fine
1- Yellow watchman doing okay.
Kind of hard to observe the fish through the surface into the dark bin, and I wonder if they have a hard time seeing their food as I find kinda plenty in the filter media. Dont think I'm overfeeding. I believe the dark confines of the bin are soothing to the fish, but I might have to break down and get a glass QT (after Xmas) to facilitate observation.
Gramma is still hanging on, was at the surface again this morning, but my wife says she thinks she saw him eat this pm.
Thanks for your interest and help Sepulation, I really appreciate it.

BTW I notice from your profile you own a record store in NY, is that the state or the city? I was sorta associated with the retail end myself years back in the day, and I'm wondering, how's business? Tower just closed all their stores in Hawaii today. Has Itunes made things that rough?

 

[tankyou]

Gramma is now out swimming around and eating greedily!

Go figure. :thinking:

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Tankyou
Gramma is now out swimming around and eating greedily!

Go figure. :thinking:
I am very glad to hear that he is doing much better. Your specs all looked fine for the qt. Gramma's can act weird sometimes. Just keep an eye on all of them. Also, the music store that I own is instrument retail about an hour and a half north of the city. Keep us posted

 

[tankyou]

Well, my computers dead. Posting this from the local library. Did another 50% water change last night, cause my potters was acting funny. Seems better this morning. Going computer shopping this PM. Why does this stuff gotta always happen on the holidays?

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Tankyou
Well, my computers dead. Posting this from the local library. Did another 50% water change last night, cause my potters was acting funny. Seems better this morning. Going computer shopping this PM. Why does this stuff gotta always happen on the holidays?

LOL I know how you feel. :jumping:

 

[tankyou]

Well, scored a new Mac mini. This things the bomb, and what's more; Xmas shoppings done and no dead fish today!

 

[tankyou]

50% water change, now YW Goby's acting sick.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Tankyou
50% water change, now YW Goby's acting sick.

I am glad you are happy with your new comp!! What is the YW doing that makes you think he is sick? Have you checked your water parameters in the qt again?

 

[tankyou]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
I am glad you are happy with your new comp!! What is the YW doing that makes you think he is sick?
Hanging around the top of the tank, perched on top of the powerhead, not eating. He's back down under the rocks this pm (after water change) but still not eating as far as I can tell.
Originally Posted by sepulatian
Have you checked your water parameters in the qt again?
Yeah, I'm checking them daily and they seem okay, but I'm doing 50% changes every other day now anyway as water seems to get slightly turbid in short order.

This is really getting frustrating one fish or another is experiencing a crisis almost daily, the ones that haven't died seem to snap back though. Only my Flame Angel and the surviving Percula are handling this with no apparent problem... There, now that's said it's the sure kiss of death, they will probably both be floating belly-up in the AM.