Need a pump

[monsinour]

I need a submersible pump that has a High flow rate that is a crappy pump. The type of crappieness is that it has to add heat to the water. Example:
The maxijet I have for my return pump works just fine and does not add any additional heat to the water.
The CA-1800 I use to mix up the water change water adds heat to the water so I dont have to have a heater in the tub when mixing water.
I need this pump to have the ability to opperate in as shallow water as possible and be able to accept hose and hose attachments, like a sprinkler head. If measuring in hoursepower, it cant be stronger than 1/4 horse.
Why?
Wife needs some way to keep the water warm while bathing the dogs in her van. We can add hot water to the tanks and the first dog gets a warm bath, second dog will get a lukewarm bath and anything beyond that takes a cold bath. The water temp doesnt effect the dogs soo much so cold baths arent that bad, but they arent good either. We tried a 300W heater in the water supply tank (40 gall.) but that didnt even keep the water warm. I am thinking that in the limited volume of bath water, usually 2" deep in a standard bathtub, adding a heat poluting pump would be able to either keep the water warm, or warm it up for the dog. We currently are using a submersible sump pump 1/6th horse power purchased from homer depot. If the CA-1800 could operate in shallow water, it would work fine. I have started the water change water at like 50 and after a day or 2 it has raised up to 75. The pump will have about 6' of hose attached to the end and probably a sprikler head at the end. Head pressure is.....well I have no idea. What is key for us is the number of Amps the pump draws. Ideally it would draw a small amount of amps.
So, does anyone have an ideas of a crappie pump that polutes the water with excess heat that is submersible and can opperate in relatively shallow waters?

 

[2quills]

Well there are some pumps that give off more heat than others but to be honest I don't think a pump is going to give you what you're looking for. Heaters work in our tanks but they also get alot of help from ambient room temperatures as well. I'm just guessing here but ambient temp may be the reason why your water change water goes from 50 to 75. Unless you keep it in a cold basment, I don't know.
But if the water is constantly battleing cold or near freazing temperatures in the back of the van then heaters or pumps probably aren't going to help much. I'd maybe look into a small capacity tankless water heater 110v that you can hook up in the van and use the sump to pump the water through the heater first. There are some smaller units that could work like what they use in R.V's and such. If you shop around you should be able to find something for around $200.
Just a thought...

http://www.ioffer.com/i/179266157

 

[monsinour]

nope, not what i am after. The new van, if we ever get it, will have a hot water tank powered by propane in it so heating the water in the new van wont be a problem. The concern is keeping the water warm in the tub while bathing the dog. having a submersible pump that adds heat to the water will keep it warm during the bath. Sure it will get used now, but the new van is "almost" ready and this pump will go into the new van.

 

[2quills]

I hear Askoll pumps produce quite a bit of heat. I really don't see any pump doing any better than a heater though.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/383689/need-a-pump#post_3357649
nope, not what i am after. The new van, if we ever get it, will have a hot water tank powered by propane in it so heating the water in the new van wont be a problem. The concern is keeping the water warm in the tub while bathing the dog. having a submersible pump that adds heat to the water will keep it warm during the bath. Sure it will get used now, but the new van is "almost" ready and this pump will go into the new van.

What about modifying one of those heated foot massagers. Put one of those on the bottom of the bath water. They have plenty of safe heat just remove the sides of the tub and the whole bottom part can go on the bottom of the dogs tub.
A crappy power head won't give off enough heat for bath water.

 

[2quills]

So heating the reservoir water is not the issue correct? You just want to keep the tub water to stay warm while washing the dog? Another idea would be to install a couple of bulkheads on the tub itself and run a small pump with an inline heater on a closed loop system. It would recirculate the tub water through the heater thus maintaining the tub water temperature. I would look for something with a little more kick than just 300w
120v - 1500w

 

[al&burke]

Monsi i have been thinking about this one, my idea is to have a tube within a tub and the outer tube (sleeve) is heated through a circulating pump and a heater, therefore it never becomes clogged. The outer part should be sealed to the inner tub. This could almost be constructed from acrylic.

 

[mylady]

Let me explain a little bit about how my van works, or is supposed to. There is a hose running from the radiator into the fresh water tank and back to the radiator and the heat from the hose is supposed to heat the water and keep it warm as well. It worked great, actually too well, I couldn't shut it off completely and the water would get to boiling point. There was a copper coil the hose connected to that sat in the tank. Well, that cracked and my mechanic was not comfortable putting another copper coil in. He felt putting 10 feet of hose in the tank would be enough. Well, it's insuallted and though it does get warm, it takes hours to heat any cold water, so I fill with hot water. I used to leave the van idling while I worked because I heated teh grooming part of the van with the dash heater. Well, that broke, 4 times actually and I gave up. We also had to reman the radiator and ever since then it runs so much darn cooler! So I drive the van with no dash heat and then turn it off and use a propane heater to heat the grooming area. The water is warm for the first dog and if I have one dog at each house the hose is enough to rewamr the water to a nice temp between each house. But when we have multiple dogs at the same house, that's when it tends to get a bit cooler. Dogs are actually better off bathed in tepid water. It's better for their skin and coat and due to their higher body temps is more comfortable, but when you're dealing with freezing cold temps, the last thing you want to be soaked with is tepid water. I like to keep it just barely above luke warm for each dog, that is comfortable for the dog and for me. Cats need warmer temps to be comfortable. I had been able to keep the water from getting too cool with an aquarium heater, it didn't heat the water, but helped maintain a decent temp. Well the shoreline went out in the van, this van is falling apart, she's 22 years old, so now I run my cords to a power strip at the front. I can't just plug the aquarium heater in the back like I used to and have no extra outlet space currently anyway. And that heater broke anyway. If I could drop something into the reserve tank to keep it warmer than the aquarium heater did, that would be great. i don't think anything put in the tub would heat water fast enough to be of any use. Time is always of the essence in the grooming van.

 

[2quills]

Honestly would probably just go with another aquarium heater. Seems like that would be the easiest way. Something larger than a 300w. 600w-1000w would probably be more efficient and heat the water faster.
If it's the tub water itself you're looking to keep warm than I think recirculating the water with a seperate pump and inline heater would/could work. I like Al's idea as well.

 

[scsinet]

The problem is that you are spraying the water in the open air. It sounds like you are recirculating the bath water... spraying water in the open air causes a massive air/water interface due to the enormous surface area. The water will need a LOT of heat to keep it warm.
To replicate the amount of heat that the engine produces, you would need at least several thousand watts of electric heat to do the job, IMO.
A "heat producing pump" will, frankly, never work. Consider the facts... a 300w aquarium heater didn't work for you. That heater is designed to put nearly 100% of 300w of energy into the water.
An aquarium pump consumes X amount of watts, and out of that you get a certain amount of mechanical output (motion) and a certain amount of heat (waste from inefficiency). With a submersible pump, all of the heat that is produced will end up in the water. If a pump draws 300w and is the comically inefficient... say... 50%, then only 150w or less of heat ends up in the water, so even then it would only be half as good as a 300w aquarium heater. Of course, no pump in the world, no matter how crappy, is that inefficient... so you can see how it wouldn't do what you want to do.
If I were you, I'd try a camp shower. Search Cabela's web site for item number IK-518701. This, driven by your existing pump, may be exactly what you are looking for. I'd also plan to install some sort of basic screen trap to prevent hair from building up inside anything. Installing it inside your van would help heat it too.

 

[evelynne]

do they even make 1000w heaters? And how many amps do they draw? We plug into the customer's home so we can only draw 15 amps total. Its not good to ask the customer to keep flipping their circut breakers for us. None of this will be a problem in the new van, was just looking for a simple, cheap fix until we get the new van and purchasing a piece that can be put to use elsewhere eventually.
Pantyhose makes a great hair catcher.

 

[monsinour]

That was me, not my daughter

 

[2quills]

You can run can run 1,500 watts safely on a 15 amp breaker. 15 amps x 120v = 1800 watts. You should stay relatively close to the 80% rule.

 

[monsinour]

well, if the heater takes all of the amps, what is going to run the dryer, clipers, lights, water pumps, vacuum, ectera?

 

[reefraff]

How about just using multiple aquarium heaters in the tank. Just cut back to one while you are using other electrical appliances. 3 300 watt heaters I would think would keep up with 40 gallons. That would give you the option of running one or two heaters while using other electrical appliances.

 

[scsinet]

Actually you can figure out the amount of electrical heat needed mathematically.... simple physics.
Given:
1 BTU = The amount of energy required to raise 1lb of water by 1 degree fahrenheit .
To make things simple, we'll assume fresh water at 8.5lb / gallon
1 watt of electrical energy = approximately 3.4 BTUs.
Assumptions:
You want to raise the water by 30 degrees. It may be more or less than that... dunno really.
The heater is 100% efficient. Electric heaters are actually nearly 100% efficient so this isn't a stretch and will keep the calculations simple.
Calculations:
40 gal = 340lbs of water (40*8.5)
340lbs / 3.4 BTUs = 100 watts PER DEGREE of heat rise.
100 watts * 30 degree rise = 3,000 watts of electircal heating power.
Keep in mind that this is also to raise it "one time." Since you are recirculating the water and continuously cooling it by spraying it through cold air, you'd likely need even more than that to keep it hot.
Sorry, but you just cannot accomplish this electrically if you are constrained to run off a single 15 amp circuit.

 

[reefraff]

If the water is constantly circulating you'd need something like a hot tub heater. Not sure if you could find one that wouldn't draw too many amps. Balboa makes a spa pack that is a remote heater with the digital control and everything you need but I am not sure of the wattage. Also not cheap, like 500.00 for the small one.