Need diagnosis on tusk fish

[jayster]

I could sure use some help on this one. The Tusk spends most of its time hiding for the past two weeks. Wont eat that I can see and he used to be the most agressive feeder. He also may be listing a little to one side when it does swim. No visible signs of disease, ick, lateral line, fin rot. Fangs dont look to long.
80 gallon fowler
80 lbs live rock
established for three years (Thats how long I 've had the tusk)
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 40
ph 8.0
Salinity may be high at 1.025
Tank mates: Arch eye hawk, purple tang have both been around for more than two years. Most recent addition this past May was a very small lionfish which has become a hoover with the food and is now five inches long. The Tusk is about 6-7 inches. The lion is a very active and agressive eater. Never seen violent interactions between any of the fish.
I feed them daily mixing sand eels, frozen krill, formula two, A cube from the variaty pack and I have an auto feeder put a bit of flake and pellet in twice a day. I dont think its over feeding, the above just illustrates the variety, not the amount.
The Tusk is not breathing hard. In fact it seems shallow. I've seen him lying on his side in his hole which seems odd as well. He just seems to be winding down. Could the lion fish have disrupted the balance once he started getting big? The lion spends most of the day hanging out in the corner so the Tusk should still have his normal room to swim.
Any thoughts would be appreciated

 

[beth]

I appreiceate your detailed post. He may have a bacterial infection or internal parasites. I am a little concerned with the higher nitrates. Why are your nitrates so high?
Can you think of anything that may have happened to cause this problem?
Also, just a general comment....I would add more variety to that diet and eliminate the autofeeder with dry foods. Foods in an autofeeder just is not going to stay fresh. Are you only feeding 1x a day? Dry foods could also be contributing to your nitrate problem.

 

[jayster]

Thanks Beth for the reply. I dont know why the nitrates are so high other than the Dry tab I was using expired this past February. I will do a series of water changes to try and lower it. Right now I average 15-20 gallon changes once a month. I use catalina water exclusively rather than mixing my oun and have a six stage R/O -D/I for top off. The Sump is a biowheel and the water drops through standard floss , sometimes with a carbon pad and sometimes with a phosphate sponge.
I am also going to try and lower the salinity to about 1.021 since I have no inverts or corals to worry about. Do you agree that is a healthier range for the fish?
I agree with you as well on the dry food. I will discontinue it. That will leave just one feeding a day with the frozen stuff about 3 hours before the tank lights go off. Right now I have the lights on 12 hours a day with moon simulation LEDs at night. I m thinking of reducing the daylight hours as well.
I ve decided to pick up a live clam and muscle, get it started by whacking it with the meat tenderizer and throwing it into the tank for the Tusk to pick at. Maybe dip it in garlic water as well to help boost the immune system. With all that shell i'm hoping it wont be as attractive to the lion fish who tends to take his food at the top of the water column, and that the tusK will have his way with it. Does all that comport with your thoughts?
Also, if it is an internal parasite or bacterial infection are there any other symptoms I should be looking for to help diagnose the problem? I cant think of any other reason for this problem other than p-diddy (my wife's name for the lion) might be scaring the heck out of the tusk with all his bling and by growing so fast. I am confident, however, that there is no nipping going on otherwise.
Thanks again for your input. I have been away from this site for quite a while but appreciate there is still help to be found out there.

 

[jayster]

Beth, I just thought of something else after reading some other threads. I have 4 inches of crushed coral that I usually do not disturb to much except when scrubing the glass near the bottom. Last water change I used a syphon to pick up the top layer of the exposed CC because it was looking kind of dirty. That may have released some toxins which could account for the sick Tusk and the high Nitrates. Does that sound plausible? Either way I think the best course of action is a series of small water changes which I will begin today.

 

[beth]

There is actually several things that might cause the higher nitrates in your system. You obviously have a larger bio-load with mostly a fish tank. Of course, fish are going to produce the most waste. The crushed coral is certainly a problem and is basically not used in the hobby anymore. The issue there is that the larger pieces of substrate trap wastes, rather than functioning as a natural filter [which is what we want live sand to do]. The other problem with crushed coral is that it doesn't allow for sand fauna proliferation. Natural sand detrivores can't live in crushed coral because of the sharp edges of the coral [like broken glass to sand fauna]. A natural sand bed, with live sand creatures from your live rock is the best type of sand substrate that you can have and that is what you need to strive for.
Over time you can work on correcting your system...the biggest thing will be changing out the crushed coral for sand. Moving to more natural filters, with less reliance on filter pad, charcoal, etc., will go a long way in improving your system.
What skimmer are you using? How do you mix your salt water. Do you have powerheads within the system for water circulation? You can drop the salinity down to 1.023. Do you use a refractometer?
Also, fish need to be fed to be healthy and happy. At least feed 2x a day. You may try to coax the tusk to eat by target feeding with a turkey baster. Take a look at the fresh seafood fish food recipe in the FAQ Thread. Garlic will be a good idea, since it seems to stimulate appetite.

 

[jayster]

WOW!!!
Thanks Beth. Those are Ideas I havent considered. I have no power heads in the tank. No protien skimmer in the sump. (I use a seaclone skimmer on my 30 gallon in my office) I dont mix salt. I buy "Catalina water" which I'm told is filtered sea water from the west coast. I asked today, when I was picking up a new batch, for a specific gravity check and found it to be 1.027. I also checked my ro/di with a TDS meter and found it to be at 200!!!! that is way to high so I'm swapping out the filters and will back wash the R/O. I bought a new test kit and the nitrates were still off the scale. All other paramaters are fine.
I only hope I can make the changes in time to save the Tusk. I dont want to lose him.
I will swap out the substrate but never tried before. Is it a matter of taking out small bunches of the old and replacing it with sand? With only four inches of CC should I try to gently dump another two inch layer of sand right on top?
Stay with me on this I implore you.
Jay

 

[beth]

Actually, removing sand means dismantallying your tank. Its quite a task, but its not as fearsome as you may think.
Basically, you get large square rubbermaids, enough to hold all your rock, all your water, and all your animals. Powerheads in each container to maintain water flow. Once everything is out of the tank, you ditch the old cc and add some nice new LS. Put your rocks back in and add your water. I'd leave your fish and a few rock in another container for about a week, until your tank settles in, then you can return them to your display. Try not to remove fish from water when you remove them from tank.
Why don't you make your own water?? What are the test results on that water? What kind of RO do you have? What test kid are you using and what do you use to measure salinity?
A quality skimmer is a MUST HAVE piece of equiptment. Other than that, the optons for equiptment intank, is min.