Need some extreme newbie info

[bigwiz]

Alright i have a 55 gallon tank and i am gettin tired of freshwater fish so im thinking of setting up a saltwater tank.....I am wondering roughly how much money i will be investing if i decided to start a saltwater tank that was relatively as simple as possible.....Are live rock and sand a must?.....and what other kind of equipment will i need to keep my tank healthy?

 

[1journeyman]

Welcome!
In my opinion live rock is a must, and at least some aragonite sand is crucial.
Protein skimmer and more powerheads for sure will be needed.
Did you ever use medication in your tank for the freshwater fish? Copper stays in a tank and can kill inverts forever.
Not sure what you mean by being tired of freshwater. Saltwater takes a lot of patience.. like a month or so of staring at an empty tank while the water "cycles".
I'd recommend a good book by Feener called "A Conscientious Marine Aquarist". There are a lot of differences between salt and freshwater tanks. Research it good so you don't end up frustrated.
As far as money goes... lighting can be a huge chunk of change if you are going to want corals, anemones, etc.

 

[bigwiz]

first of all what is argonite sand.....and when i said i was tired of freshwater fish....i meant i wanted to watch some more exciting more colorful fish....but i did not use any kind of medication for the water or fish....and i dont plan on doin corals yet....at least not now....I am just trying to set up a clean and efficient tank with some rock and fish

 

[sweetdawn]

agree about the live rock dont agree with the sand some of us go bb instead of dsb. I saw a post yesterday saying that you can eventually get the copper out of the tank but takes work. How much you spend depends on if you are doing fish only or a reef tank. Fish only dont require expensive lights.

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Did you ever use medication in your tank for the freshwater fish? Copper stays in a tank and can kill inverts forever.
That's incorrect!!! Copper can be removed from a tank and will NOT kill inverts forever. If Copper Safe was used, it dissapates over time during water change and siphoning out the substrate. Using carbon in filtration system will filter out the copper also, and by doing some scrubbing on the glass will clean it off also. I HAVE used copper in my tank and I DO have inverts in my tank and they're NOT dead!!! Just my thought! :happyfish

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by BigWiz
Alright i have a 55 gallon tank and i am gettin tired of freshwater fish so im thinking of setting up a saltwater tank.....I am wondering roughly how much money i will be investing if i decided to start a saltwater tank that was relatively as simple as possible.....Are live rock and sand a must?.....and what other kind of equipment will i need to keep my tank healthy?
IMO I would just get live sand and live rock to start the tank with. All depends on what you want in your tank to decide on lighting, of course the stronger the lighting, the better. A Protein Skimmer is a must have! Some power heads are needed too. I think roughly around $400-500(brand new) to get you started without the lighting, you don't have to add all the rocks at once(that would cut down that price mentioned earlier), but if you want to do it right from the beginning, I would just add all in at once save the hassle later. All of this I've mentioned was for the 55 gallon that you have. Not sure if that's the one your switching over to SW. Do lots of research before you start, this is a great site to learn from. Good Luck! :happyfish

 

[acrylic51]

I have to disagree and agree with some things said.....It's definitely not a must or should have sand in a saltwater tank......There are TONS of full blown reefs running BB and if they can go without sand then so could a FO setup.....Live Rock is my same feeling.....There are gorgeous SPS tanks that don't use rock as well to leave tons of room for their beloved corals and the corals thrive......So again I don't think it's a necessity....I think it's more appealing to the eye and gives your fish places to hide and swim.........

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Mikeyjer
That's incorrect!!! Copper can be removed from a tank and will NOT kill inverts forever. If Copper Safe was used, it dissapates over time during water change and siphoning out the substrate. Using carbon in filtration system will filter out the copper also, and by doing some scrubbing on the glass will clean it off also. I HAVE used copper in my tank and I DO have inverts in my tank and they're NOT dead!!! Just my thought! :happyfish
LOL. We seem to be disagreeing a lot tonight Mike.
Copper has been reported to leech into the silicone of a glass tank. The tank can test negative for copper only to have it come back months later. That's why I said it "can" kill forever. It might not, but it certainly "can".
to the subject of aragonite sand. It's a calcium carbonate based sand. It's not a must, but I consider it crucial for it's ability to help buffer pH and add calcium and trace elements to the water. In addition it provides a LOT of surface area for bacteria to form on to help with the breakdown of ammonia in your tank.
You don't have to have a deep sand bed to enjoy the benefits of it (although I'm obviously a fan of deep sand beds). Even an inch or so on the bottom of the tank provides habitat for sand micro critters and allows for more bacterial growth.

 

[acrylic51]

Sorry to stir up a very debateable topic, but please explain why BB tanks are very successfull with SPS which are very demanding???????? :notsure: As far as the theory of adding trace elements and such to the water I have to disagree again, because that is what water changes are for to replace the elements consumed from the tank and since there won't be corals or such in the tank the calcuim need is low and so on :notsure:
A skimmer I feel is also a must regardless if your going reef, fowlr, or fo

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
LOL. We seem to be disagreeing a lot tonight Mike.
Copper has been reported to leech into the silicone of a glass tank. The tank can test negative for copper only to have it come back months later. That's why I said it "can" kill forever. It might not, but it certainly "can".
to the subject of aragonite sand. It's a calcium carbonate based sand. It's not a must, but I consider it crucial for it's ability to help buffer pH and add calcium and trace elements to the water. In addition it provides a LOT of surface area for bacteria to form on to help with the breakdown of ammonia in your tank.
You don't have to have a deep sand bed to enjoy the benefits of it (although I'm obviously a fan of deep sand beds). Even an inch or so on the bottom of the tank provides habitat for sand micro critters and allows for more bacterial growth.
Yea I know, I usually agree with most of what you say! lol...not trying to flame ya or anything though...

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
I have to disagree and agree with some things said.....It's definitely not a must or should have sand in a saltwater tank......There are TONS of full blown reefs running BB and if they can go without sand then so could a FO setup.....Live Rock is my same feeling.....There are gorgeous SPS tanks that don't use rock as well to leave tons of room for their beloved corals and the corals thrive......So again I don't think it's a necessity....I think it's more appealing to the eye and gives your fish places to hide and swim.........
Sure you don't have to have sand, but then you have a BB tank, what's the point of that? Second, having live rock give a place for your fish to feel safe and at home and it also keep your nitrates down and filters your tank. For me, not getting into reef at the moment and I LOVE my fish more then the reef system. Calcium is needed for live rock so it is a must. What's your set up? BB or sand? live rock or no live rock? It's a individual preference, not a agree or disagree statement. Just my thought! :happyfish

 

[ezee]

BigWiz,
Hey and welcome! I am a fellow new person and thought I might throw in a couple of pennies. Keep in mind I am not trying to get in between what is a very friendly and cordial debate about sand, etc.

Based on what I have researched, here are some points about aragonite. It is actually composed of a substance close to the skeletons of coral, or exactly (depending on who you read). This substance (calcium carbonate, I think) helps to stabilize the ph in your tank by dissolving when things get too acidic and restoring the ph balance (so your fish will not cry "I'm melting!" JK LOL).
As far as the Bare Bottom (no sand or 1" or less of sand) versus the Deep Sand Bed (4"+ of sand) there are a LOT of opinions. I am not convinced, based on a lot of reading, that either is completely correct and you should read up on it yourself. Just do a search on the two topics and you will find lots of stuff. People get very into this topic.
As far as live rock I think more people will lean towards having it than not having it. I personally never really thought about it, I like the way it looks.
HTH!
E

 

[sweetdawn]

if you have ever seen a bb tank before its weekly cleaning you would know the benifit of a bb tank. all that junk that sits on the bottom that you can syphon out when you do a water change gets down in your sand causing nitrate problems with a deep sand bed. I have one tank with sand and two tanks without I have a lot less problems with the bb tanks

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by sweetdawn
if you have ever seen a bb tank before its weekly cleaning you would know the benifit of a bb tank. all that junk that sits on the bottom that you can syphon out when you do a water change gets down in your sand causing nitrate problems with a deep sand bed. I have one tank with sand and two tanks without I have a lot less problems with the bb tanks
I know what your saying and that's your way of doing it, not for me. I rather not see the BB tank. I like my inverts crawling on the sand and making little marks as they walk through the sand.