new 30 gallon

[fooseball08]

Ok heres what i have:
30 gallon long tank
whisper HOB filter size 40-60 hooked up to an under gravel filter???
Crushed coral
and 3 pieces of live rock from my 60 gallon tank
What do i need to do to cycle my tank? have i completely gone wrong with the under gravel filter or not?... if so thats no big deal... it can be removed in no time. Will the three pieces of live rock cycle the tank alone or do i need to do something else. The pieces add up to about 10 lbs.
I would like to make this tank a clown tank i think. I have not yet been successful with a Clown/Anenome pair but im pretty sure that is due to my anenome being a long tenticle.
I would also like to try some easy corals as i have never had any at all before in my other tank.
Please post some stock lists for me !!!(I would like to stick with the full spectrum lighting that i have right now so please keep that in mind)

 

[rotarymagic]

please ditch all that terrible stuff..
you need aragonite based live sand... you need at least 1lb/gallon of live rock, ditch the undergravel, ditch the whisper..
two koralia 1s would be pretty decent for flow from both ends. you'll definitely want to figure out a refugium or turf scrubber for exporting inorganics so an aquaclear110 (with different impeller) and pack that with a bag of rowaphos, chemipure, and chaeto (with its own 6500k light).. a surface skimmer attachment hooked to the aquaclear intake would be good too as it'll keep surface film from forming.
For longterm success with an anenome you need individually reflected T5HOs or metal halides not power compacts or other cheapo lighting. you cannot keep really any corals under "full spectrum lighting" so keep that in mind. Also an anenome is harder in a smaller tank especially with other corals because anenomes will eat fish, inverts, and corals if they come in contact with them.. anenomes move!
best of luck! This hobby isn't cheap so don't waste money or time by just halfarsing it, do it right. It'll cost alittle bit more dime up front, but it'll be cheaper in the long run then wasting money on livestock that continuously dies.

 

[camfish]

Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2884567
please ditch all that terrible stuff..
you need aragonite based live sand... you need at least 1lb/gallon of live rock, ditch the undergravel, ditch the whisper..
two koralia 1s would be pretty decent for flow from both ends. you'll definitely want to figure out a refugium or turf scrubber for exporting inorganics so an aquaclear110 (with different impeller) and pack that with a bag of rowaphos, chemipure, and chaeto (with its own 6500k light).. a surface skimmer attachment hooked to the aquaclear intake would be good too as it'll keep surface film from forming.
For longterm success with an anenome you need individually reflected T5HOs or metal halides not power compacts or other cheapo lighting. you cannot keep really any corals under "full spectrum lighting" so keep that in mind. Also an anenome is harder in a smaller tank especially with other corals because anenomes will eat fish, inverts, and corals if they come in contact with them.. anenomes move!
best of luck! This hobby isn't cheap so don't waste money or time by just halfarsing it, do it right. It'll cost alittle bit more dime up front, but it'll be cheaper in the long run then wasting money on livestock that continuously dies.
+1 on argonite sand, cc is used by a lot of people, even some reefers, but in most people's opinions sand is better. CC will soon become a nitrate factory if it isn't cared for properly and believe me caring for it isn't as easy as sand.
I love koralia, but instead of Koralia 1s, I would go with one koralia 1 and one koralia 2 or two Koralia 2s.
As Bang has said (I think it was Bang), if you can't spell anemone, then you're probably not ready to keep one...
Clowns don't need to host anything, but if you have your heart set on that, then skip the nem and get a good hearty coral and try to get them to host that. I do recommend individually reflected T5 lighting even without the nem.
If you're set on the current lighting, then you can always get some low light corals like mushrooms.
I disagree with rotary on the turf scrubber, I don't think it's all that great. I know he has one and it works for him, but I like better the idea of a hang on the back aquaclear filter (which you can mod into a fuge...just google that and you'll find how to do it) and a good protein skimmer.
Also, it is expensive especially if you don't do it right the first time. Good Luck and remember that the more you research now, the cheaper it will be later.

 

[stanlalee]

you dont "need" any of that stuff (live sand, fuge, phosphate media) although it does help. you can do all that stuff and still have a crappy tank. it aint what you have its what you do with what you have.
crushed coral, seaclone skimmer, live rock and HOB filter (with no media just water circulation). biweekly water changes. was issue free (adding a fuge is actually how I messed it up, the sand storm I didn't account for wiped out half the corals within 24hrs. at least now I know how to and how not to add a sump).

If it were me any money spent would first be on lighting since you already have the anemone followed by adequate live rock (at least 30lbs total) and then a skimmer. I agree with the lighting (although LTA's eating fish and inverts was a little overstated. if its an actual LTA as stated it wont even come off the substrate to sting corals its tenticles dont reach and only dumb or less than healthy fish/inverts could be eaten. LTAs are the least likely to move)
two K1's arent going to cut it for a 30g by a long shot. here is the K1 angled up that I took out of my current 30g to use in my sons long neglected (and live rock thefted) 6 gallon soon to be given some attention. look at the surface movement. WEAK! (well its actually PERFECT for the 6g. wayyy under powered for anything more. mushrooms could do fine in there). I dont get how people have one of these in 24g cubes ect and think they give good flow

 

[fooseball08]

Ok stan so you are saying that i can do just fine with everything i have by adding a koralia #2 to my tank... Right now i am still waiting for it to cycle but what exactly does the powerhead do for the tank? i realize it gives me better water circulation but will i be ok with the crushed coral aand my undergravel filter hooked to my hang on back filter? I dont like sand because any time i clean the glass with my magnetic cleaner i run the risk of scratching the glass and i have already messed up a couple times on my 60 gallon i figured since im starting a new tank i would try the crushed coral. Is the powerhead just for the corals or do you need it in a fish only tank also?

 

[rotarymagic]

Originally Posted by Stanlalee
http:///forum/post/2884735
you dont "need" any of that stuff (live sand, fuge, phosphate media) although it does help. you can do all that stuff and still have a crappy tank. it aint what you have its what you do with what you have.
crushed coral, seaclone skimmer, live rock and HOB filter (with no media just water circulation). biweekly water changes. was issue free (adding a fuge is actually how I messed it up, the sand storm I didn't account for wiped out half the corals within 24hrs. at least now I know how to and how not to add a sump).

If it were me any money spent would first be on lighting since you already have the anemone followed by adequate live rock (at least 30lbs total) and then a skimmer. I agree with the lighting (although LTA's eating fish and inverts was a little overstated. if its an actual LTA as stated it wont even come off the substrate to sting corals its tenticles dont reach and only dumb or less than healthy fish/inverts could be eaten. LTAs are the least likely to move)
two K1's arent going to cut it for a 30g by a long shot. here is the K1 angled up that I took out of my current 30g to use in my sons long neglected (and live rock thefted) 6 gallon soon to be given some attention. look at the surface movement. WEAK! (well its actually PERFECT for the 6g. wayyy under powered for anything more. mushrooms could do fine in there). I dont get how people have one of these in 24g cubes ect and think they give good flow

My koralia nanos (2 inches below the water line in my 20long) break the surface more than that lol.. I think either your equipment is broke or the power head is too low. When you use equipment improperly, you're bound to get bad results.

 

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2885694
When you use equipment improperly, you're bound to get bad results.
as you can see nothing is in there so its not really there for "proper" use (I'll worry about placement when there's something in there. its just stuck in there for now). I just used it as an example to show that a K1 doesn't even blow things around in a 6g so you probably want something bigger in a 30g.
fooseball08 I would lose the under ground filter and if you really have a LTA you need halides or very good T5 HO(they are sand dwelling anemones so you need lights that reach the bottom well. if you have a bubble tip you can even get by with pc as long as you have two bulbs. bubble tip is the only common non pest anemone that doesn't require intense lighting. they will move alot if they dont like where they're at).
I've actually had that crush coral since around 1995 just always reused it. its been up and taken down alot but I put it back up in 2004 for kicks with the underground filter and crushed coral. when I moved in 2005 (and decided to get alittle more serious with the tank) I took that opportunity to take out the undergravel filter but I chose to keep using crush coral. detritus gets caught under the underground filter and stays there (whats often referred to as a "nitrate trap"). detritus gets caught in crush coral as well but I used a siphon gravel vac during water changes so it was cleaned up every two weeks. I never had nitrate or water quality issues with crush coral. you do have to vacuum it and some inverts and fish require sand but you certaintly dont have to use sand. so far I've tried crush coral, play sand, "real" overnighted florida live sand and no sand. to each his own.
I started this tank with play sand (still in there on this pic)

I siphoned it all out and replaced it with "real" florida live sand pictured

I started this one with sand from the above tank (dead but seeded with my sons real florida live sand)

then I siphoned that out and have NO sand (well I put it in the sump)

Notice the 1400gph sureflowed maxijet and even a K1 facing the sureflow maxijet to "randomize" the flow. no sand flying. the candycane and acans which dont like high flow doing just fine. and you can see how many conventional powerheads I had in the 100g (6 all together: two 270gph on the ends, two 370gph left and right and 480gph+600gph in the center). low flow is not my thing and I have never had problems with corals waving rediculously from lots of flow.

 

[fooseball08]

im guessing my anemone is a "pest" anemone because i have had it in my 60 gallon for about a year now with two 40 watt full spectrum bulbs over it and never once hve i seen it attached to the sand. It usually sits on one piece of rock about halfway up and stays there unless i rearrange the rocks then it finds a new spot. It only cost me 5 dollars at my LFS, but i plann on buying a bubble tipped for in my 30 gallon and hoping to get a black saddleback to live in it

 

[fooseball08]

my 60 gallon had about 100 lbs of play sand in it until last night when i decided to completely clean it and start over. the sand bed was too deep and it looked like crap, and it had alot of junk rock in it so i took about 60lbs of the sand out and some of the rock and put all new water in it so it is cycling again off of the live sand, rock and the filter media.

 

[stanlalee]

okay do you have a long tentacle anemone (Macrodactyla doreensis) or are you just using that as an adjective to describe long tentacles? Perhaps misidentification if yours attaches to a rock halfway up. thats just not LTA behavior.
LTA's (Macrodactyla doreensis) stay at the bottom and plant their foot in the substrate.

in the wild they are found in muddy areas like this

 

[fooseball08]

It looks just like the bottom one but it has little purple tips on it and a pink foot. i dont know if it is a tru LTA or not.